Multiple PCN's when permit displayed

Biggkidd

Hello all and thanks for taking the time to read this:D

A bit of history...

I've lived on my estate since 2012 as part of a Shared Ownership scheme. In my Lease which was signed upon purchase, is no mention of parking enforcing rules being implemented on the premises. In January 2017, the Residential Management Association, which made up of Residents, employed Parking and Property Management with policing of parking on the estate. All residents were issued with permits and subsequently were asked to use the spaces marked out by PPM, labelled VP (Visitors Parking) and U (Unreserved).

Over the course of time, my permit has faded but still clearly displays the company logo. I have received multiple PCN's (all PCN's related to VP spaces)I have been in a similar situation before and Gladstone failed to show so i won by default, this time i want to take the fight to them and put them on the back foot right away.

As mentioned earlier, I have a lease which makes no mention of needing to use a permit on site. No mention of a RMA or PPM. I have received a variety of NTK's, all which clearly display the permit in the windscreen.

If there is any advice or any more information needed BEFORE you can advise me, please ask and ill reply as soon as i can. Thanks in advance.

Merry Xmas

The_Slithy_Tove

You could try the trespass route. If you have an allocated space, then put them on notice that you are withdrawing any implied access to your property. If it's shared spaces, it's a less easy route. Or, once you have put them on notice that you never agreed to this scheme, neither the PPC nor RA have any rights to impose such a scheme (check the lease first), and the PPC are in no position to be offering any contract to park or otherwise (as your lease already gives you that right), then you could try the harrasssment route.

Biggkidd

Thanks for your response. I do have an allocated space as part of my leasehold. Visitors spaces are used on a first come first serve basis as quoted from the Lease. There is no mention of Residents having to display a permit.

The incident occured in a Visitors parking space, so it's the not so easy route by the looks of it (huff).

So I write to the PPC and RMA asking to be be removed from this scheme? I never actually 'signed' up to this scheme in the first place, it was imposed. Are there specific things I should look for in my lease that'll throw some weight behind the notice?

The_Slithy_Tove

Biggkidd wrote: »

Are there specific things I should look for in my lease that'll throw some weight behind the notice?

There is often a clause in leases which allows the management company to impose "regulations" for the smooth running of the shared parts of the development. They can use such clauses to claim that they can bring in a PPC. However, what such a clause does not allow them to do is:

• Imose financial penalties for breach of such regulations (what you are actually doing is breaching the terms of the lease, strictly seaking)
• Allow a third party company to attempt to get you to enter into a contract with you to do something you're allowed to do anyway (park)

You should insist on seeing the contract with the PPC (which you ought to have a right to do, as you are a member of the RA), and see if there are any backhanders going to either the individual ticketer (otherwise known as a Norris) or the management agent themselves for tickets issued. If there are, it is clearly not a scheme being run in the best interests of the residents.

Coupon-mad

You should be saying you were not properly consulted, the scheme has been foisted upon residents and there appears to have been no involvement of the landowner and no formal variation of your Shared Ownership Deed.

As such, you do not accept and have never accepted any contract from PPM.

The firm let loose to maraud among cars in the car park are believed to be ex-clampers, and notorious serial litigators who have been shown, time and again, to target residents instead of trespassers.

Targeting residents whose permits have faded due to the ink/materials used by PPM themselves (deliberately set to fade, perhaps?), is unacceptable harassment and this bunch should never have been allowed within a mile of residents' cars.

Don't write 'asking' to leave the scheme! Tell the MA and Residents' Association that you've never agreed to any variation in your lease terms and this regime is a case of derogation from grant.

Read the threads by hairray and Daniel san. No links, go find them & read their letters.

Biggkidd

I sent them a letter a couple of months ago to the RMA, I will PM the details of the conversation to anyone who is willing to help. I know some PPCs etc monitor these sites so I won't post here. Coupon mad and Slithy Tove, I will PM you the conversation as you have previously commented. Thanks

Quentin

Take great care over who you respond to when inviting pms!!


Only consider contacting posters who have been here a long time and have lots of posts!!

Coupon-mad

I don't take pm's except from a few trusted regulars.

nosferatu1001

Same, I don’t simply have time

Just post it here suitably redacted. Some paranoia is ok, but not giving us anything’s just painful.

Biggkidd

A snippet from the emails.

My first contact:

I have become victim to a parking charge notice from (the PPC) for an alleged contravention of some parking conditions. I am at a loss as to where these conditions have appeared from since there are no conditions on my lease that can explain them.


I understand that the parking contractor was employed by yourselves and that the contract was between yourself and them. I have never been approached about this matter. I have never accepted a derogation of my leasehold rights, nor am I likely to in future.


I wish to raise this matter as a formal complaint. Please explain how this situation has arisen. I need to know if the landlord has handed you the authority to make this change of leasehold rights, and to show me such documentation you have to support that. If no authorisation was passed down to you, I need to know why you have unilaterally sought to interfere with my leasehold rights, and especially what lawful grounds you had to do so.


If you wish to inform me that your own client agreement with the landowner passes such authority I need to see a copy of that contract to validate your answer.


I also need to see a copy of the contract you have taken with the parking company so I can see how it impacts on my leaseholder rights. Furthermore I believe that the introduction of a scheme which impacts on the residents is subject to a formal tender basis for the contractor. Please advise on the tender application process you have followed.

The response summarised:

* The Director suggested that parking regulations had always been on the land.

* They mentioned to have an agreement with the HA and residents regarding the introduction of the PPC.

We the directors cannot get involved on individual cases. Use (the PPC) appeals process is described in the letters attached.

We are unsure as to what leasehold rights you are referring to, we suggest that you consult with the owner of the building as the rights and obligations are detailed in the TP1 document. The management company is tasked with the management of all communal spaces, these details are are also detailed in the TP1. If you would like to see the ‘Memorandum of association’ this document is included with the transfer documents or you can get hold of a copy from Companies house.

With regards to contracts or contract agreements we the Management company are not at liberty to disclose this information.


My response in summary:

I have been a resident on the site since 2012. When I moved here, there were no such parking control management companies or restrictions in place associated with this land.

You mention that the Management company, together with HA and residents are all parties to the contract, yet you are unwilling to supply such a document which can confirm this.

As my lease has primacy over any subsequent terms placed on the use of the land, then the action of placing parking conditions where none are shown in my lease, is unlawful. To be more precise, Tortious Interference.

My lease make no mention of a Management company/Residents Association providing such a service that ensures residents display a permit at all times and be 'fined' for not doing so.

The terms of my lease are being interfered with. Simple. I have not signed, nor even been consulted on any changes to my lease and you have allowed an outside company to start their operations on land to which I have a right of peaceful enjoyment without any restrictions or penalties placed on parking in the manner claimed by the PPC.

Can you point out where in the Memorandum of Association it states the Management company is tasked with looking after communal spaces and common parts of the estate? I would like to see how this statement compares to my lease.

The 2nd reply:

If you are in any doubt as to the original commencement of the parking controls please contact the HA's agent and ask them to supply you with copies of the original letters sent to residents.

I would like to reiterate if you believe that your vehicle was parked according rules, please contact PPMA and follow the appeals procedure.

We are not 'unwilling' to supply documents, these are on public record, these records are held by HA's agent.

With regard to your lease, please ask your landlord to show you the relevant schedules that pertain to the property you lease. All the answers you seek are contained within that TP1 document.

As I mentioned this is an exceedingly emotive issue, please accept our invitation to come and join us at a meeting, or two (2 Directors) of us could organise to meet with you, as I feel that we would accomplish far more face to face than through the exchange of emails.

I hope this is enough information for ppl to help out.

nosferatu1001

It doesn’t add anything, unless of course you’ve gone and checked for those documents. They claim they’re public.