Notice period on tenancy

GDB2222

I let a property six years ago on a six months fixed term. Since then, the tenant has been holding over on the same lease, paying rent monthly on 24th of each month.

She has just sent me an email saying she is leaving on 2 January.

Could someone explain what the tenant's obligations are concerning notice?

Assuming the property remains vacant until say the end of January, who is responsible for the Council Tax and the cost of background heating to prevent freezing.

Does it make any difference that I served a S21 notice that expired at the end of September? The tenant then said she could not find anywhere, so I agreed she could stay on. At least, I took no steps to apply for a court order to evict her.

G_M

The date rent is paid is irrelevant so far as notice to end the tenancy is concerned.

See
* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

Once the tenancy ends the landlord is responsible for all costs, unless he can pursuade a stranger on the internet to take up liabilty.

However tenant's council tax liability ends when they vacate if the tenancy is periodic.

A S21 notice does not end a tenancy.

The time to learn about matters like this is when you become a landlord.

To assist further see

* Tenancies in Eng/Wales: Guides for landlords and tenants

marliepanda

You need to decide when the tenancy ends. Once you have decided this, the you can work out the rest. You gave her a section 21 so clearly want her out, so is there any benefit to you to trying to drag this on longer than the date she can leave.

When you work out when the tenancy is ending, she is liable for council tax until that date. She is also able to claim any unoccupied discount the council might offer, which may reduce how much unoccupied discount you get (you may already know this but I have to explain it to horrified and indignant landlords everyday so forgive me!)

Utility bills would be her responsibility also until end of tenancy. However she would get to decide what to leave them on, not you. If the pipes did freeze you could charge that from the deposit or suggest a heating schedule but you cannot enforce it

G_M

Hmmmm....May I?

marliepanda wrote: »

You need to decide when the tenancy ends.
Landlord cannont 'decide'. Either
1) the tenant decides (and gives proper notice), or
2) the landlord applies to court and tthe court decides, or
3) the landlord discussses witth tenant and they mutually decide

Once you have decided this, the you can work out the rest. You gave her a section 21 so clearly want her out, so is there any benefit to you to trying to drag this on longer than the date she can leave.
see 3) above

When you work out when the tenancy is ending, she is liable for council tax until that date.
Not if tenant vacates earlier during a periodic tenancy (this does not apply in a fixed term).

She is also able to claim any unoccupied discount the council might offer, which may reduce how much unoccupied discount you get (you may already know this but I have to explain it to horrified and indignant landlords everyday so forgive me!)

Utility bills would be her responsibility also until end of tenancy. However she would get to decide what to leave them on, not you. If the pipes did freeze you could charge that from the deposit or suggest a heating schedule but you cannot enforce it

Hmmm.
1) the tenancy might (or might not) specify minimum heating requirements in winter
2) even if not, the tenant's Common Law legal obligation to act "in a tenant-like manner" would requuire heating in winter to protect against frozen pies.

so yes, the LL could enforce.

Comms69

G_M wrote: »

Hmmmm....May I?
Hmmm.
1) the tenancy might (or might not) specify minimum heating requirements in winter
2) even if not, the tenant's Common Law legal obligation to act "in a tenant-like manner" would requuire heating in winter to protect against frozen pies.

so yes, the LL could enforce.

Indeed, no-one should have to have frozen pies at Christmas!

agrinnall

I'm not really that sure why you are concerned about it, you've had a good tenant for 6 years with no voids, you obviously had a reason to ask her to leave in September, and now she is going, so what's the problem?

GDB2222

agrinnall wrote: »

I'm not really that sure why you are concerned about it, you've had a good tenant for 6 years with no voids, you obviously had a reason to ask her to leave in September, and now she is going, so what's the problem?

Two weeks notice, especially at this time of year, is unfairly short. Effectively, given that everybody is packing up shop until the new year, it's nil notice.

The long period of the tenancy was reflected in the rent, which was more than 10% below market rent.

GDB2222

G_M wrote: »

The date rent is paid is irrelevant so far as notice to end the tenancy is concerned.

See
* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

Once the tenancy ends the landlord is responsible for all costs, unless he can pursuade a stranger on the internet to take up liabilty.

However tenant's council tax liability ends when they vacate if the tenancy is periodic.

A S21 notice does not end a tenancy.

The time to learn about matters like this is when you become a landlord.

To assist further see

* Tenancies in Eng/Wales: Guides for landlords and tenants

If I summarise that:

A tenant can end a monthly SPT by giving at least 1 months notice in writing ending on the last (or 1st day - Crate v Miller 1947) of a Tenancy Period sent to the address "for serving notices".

So, as the tenancy period is monthly starting on 24th of each month, the notice given by the tenant should have expired on 23rd/24th January. It didn't. It stated that the tenant is moving out and ending the tenancy on 2 January, which raised the question who is liable for the CT during that 3 week period?

What I was unclear about is whether the S21 notice affected that at all - thanks for the answer.

ThePants999

I don't think you've actually had that answered.

In the strictest interpretation of the law and contract, the S21 is irrelevant. If the tenant wants to leave at any point prior to court-appointed bailiffs evicting them, they need to give correct notice according to their tenancy agreement and are liable for rent up until such correct notice expires.

However, you may have trouble enforcing that. Quite clearly, if you'd gone to court seeking repossession, and the court made a possession order, bailiffs were due to enforce it on 23rd Jan, and the tenant voluntarily left 2nd Jan - it's very unlikely a court would find in your favour if you tried to claim rent up to the 23rd. Now, that's not what's happened here, so it's a lot harder to predict - but there's still a chance that a court would find that you're not out of pocket as you'd served an S21. I say this just so you know that winning isn't a 100% guarantee if you sue her for breaching contract, and you might decide that it's not worth the hassle, and focus your efforts instead on just finding a new tenant ASAP!

theartfullodger

You've told us when the rent is paid: Very interesting but that doesn't necessarily line up with monthly tenancy period. (Or, indeed, when rent is payable.)

Please kindly let us know...
a) What date (exact) did tenancy occupancy start?
b) Does tenancy state rent payable monthly, weekly, 4-weekly etc etc etc.. (what the tenancy says, rather than what the tenant's behaviour pattern actually is).

So, if for example, tenancy started 01/01/2011 and rent payable weekly, although tenant then started paying monthly, the rental period would still be weekly (7 days) but tenant's notice period has to be at least 28days. Thus less than 4% chance tenant's notice must expire 24th or 25th.

That you didn't increase rent to market was your decision. In your shoes (I'm a landlord) after 6 years of rent in-full-on-time and an otherwise "good" tenant I'd let them go at that, and not behave in such a way that gets landlords the mean, penny-pinching, scrouge-like reputation so many seem to complain about getting: I wonder why so many tenants seem to have such views.

Merry Xmas to all decent people.

Margot123

Accept the fact you had a good tenant for 6 years (or appear to have had) and move on.
What is there to gain from having a protracted argument over what their obligations are?
Mutually agree something between you, and seek another tenant while keeping your fingers crossed they will be equally as good.