Holiday Entitlement Confusion

Cerberuso

Will try and keep this short and sweet as much as possible.

To start, I work shift pattern, average of 35 hours a week, sometimes as much as 55 hours, sometimes as little as 25 hours, the rota is apparently on a 16 week rotation, 4 on, and 4 off. it's a mess due to a combination of cutting operational hours and the company trying to still keep to contract (which was TUPE to a new company). So every now and again I am required to do what is called a "plus shift" (hence the 55 hour week, 5x11 hour shifts).

However the issue I am having is that I am being demanded to prove my contract entitlement for holiday (I currently cannot access contract, this is due to Xmas presents everywhere making said location inaccessible at the moment).
Shifts are as follows for a typical week.
6 X 11 hour day shifts
1 X 9 hour day shift.

2 X 10 hour night shift
3 X 6 hour night shift
1x9 hour night shift,
1x 7 hour night shift.

Holiday is calculated as HOURS not "days" with each entitlement of a day equalling 8 hour entitlement.

I have worked under this company now for atleast 3 years and there has never been an issue before, but when I tried to book some leave, I was told I only have 21 hours left not the 43 required to cover what was requested.

Confused I looked back on what I had already been paid in holiday hours, and added what was to come, and sure I was short but I actually had 41 hours left not the 21 as claimed.
Now in trying to get this sorted with my line manager...

Now we get as stated before 8 hours for each "day" of entitlement, plus 8 further "days" as bank holidays, now the line manager is claiming for the bank holiday "days" they only count as 7 hours each as an hour is taken out for unpaid lunch breaks.

Now my argument to them was that surely my regular wage would also have this break deducted they were right, so if I did an 11 hour shift I would get paid for 10 hours work and not the 11 like I do?
Seems rather odd for a company to only apply it to this area.

Of course I need to find my contract, however there is a company accord which by all contract were done, stated that each day, unpaid breaks would be a 30 minute lunch break, and 2x 10 minute breaks. So 50 minutes...

But even taking this into account that's just 7 hours difference and does not explain the difference of 20 hours stated above.

There is also another matter of whether I was actually entitled to an extra "day" for long service (given after 2 years), but still does not account for the 20 hour difference.

I'm also assuming that as per the minimum holiday entitlement rules, that the basic entitlement PLUS the bank holiday entitlement must be more than the minimum, not just the basic without the bank holiday extra days?

I know a lot could be answered with my contract but there are still a few things above that do not make any sense!

Anyone able to help?
(I have tried to contact trade union but it seems because I am not a member I'm not gonna get much help at this point).

Cerberuso

Just wanted to add something here.

During the discussion with my line manager, they revealed that the employer does not have a copy of my contract themselves.
So I asked how would they prove something like notice period if I wanted to leave, and I was told they would use the accord that was written by the original employer for that information, is this right?
Also if they can do this for the leave notice why am I having to prove my holiday entitlement, when THEY are the ones suggesting it's different to this "accord"

The thing that seriously annoys me is that an issue was first raised back at the beginning of November, the leave was December and I have now taken those days off, possibly now as unpaid leave. (by time I actually received response there was not enough time to comply with the notice period for cancelling leave)

Sarastro

Blimey - it's all a bit complicated.

I suggest you tackle this from a positive point of view. You do need to dig out your contract and give them a copy. You could also set out your calculations as to what you think your holiday is and ask them to tell you if they think it should be different, if so what's the reason?

I'd keep pressing the point that they seem unable to explain how they've calculated your entitlement and should probably keep using the calculations you've always worked to. The basis for this is that they shouldn't really change your holiday entitlement without consulting you - so if they haven't said that holiday is going to calculated in a different way when you joined, it's not really reasonable to 'back-date' the new way of calculating things.

I also suggest you get evidence of your previous holiday authorisation. If they find that previous holiday was in fact unpaid leave, you can give them this evidence and suggest they authorised a holiday request...and not unpaid leave...therefore it was holiday as far as you were concerned and a mistake on their part in authorising holiday you may not have been entitled to.

Cerberuso

I think I can do something like that myself, as all pay slips are electronic, I think at the very least I should be able to find out what exactly I used last year.

Will keep you updated

getmore4less

I have not gone through the shift stuff yet.

However the issue I am having is that I am being demanded to prove my contract entitlement for holiday

Start with the contractual entitlement for normal workers if there are any.

Is that statutory or more.


if you know you are contracted to 35hr per week then statutory will be 5.6weeks*35hr/week.

Cerberuso

Well as you state 5.6 X 35 gives me my basic entitlement, so in this case 196 hours.
Entitlement including bank holidays is 238 according to the company. Minus bank holidays makes it 174 (but I think the minimum amount can include the extra for bank holidays so no issue there).

Also having spoken to other colleagues, they have never heard of this 1 hour unpaid lunch for each "day" being taken off the bank holiday entitlement, adding to my confusion.
Line manager did state they attached a document to the email that shows this but there was no attachment, I did ask for it to be resend but still waiting.

But as stated earlier, even if you factor in the total of 8 hours for all the unpaid lunch breaks for bank holidays and the 8 hours they claim I do not have for long service (claiming it was changed). That would account for 16 hours, not the 20 hours they are talking about, now I know it's only 4 hours so not much to worry about, but if they can get this wrong it leads me to believe other things may also need to be checked!

theoretica

You average 35 hours a week. This would be 5 x 7 hours if you worked 5 days a week, so your employers are giving you this average for each bank holiday. (This makes sense to me, obviously that doesn't mean it is what your contract says.) If, however, your working shift is say 9 to 5 one day the presence of an unpaid break in the middle will determine how much holiday you need to take. If this is called an '8 hour' shift with an hour unpaid break you will only need 7 hours holiday to cover it. If your '8 hour' shift runs from 9 to 6 with an hour unpaid then you will need 8 hours holiday for it.

Cerberuso

It's never five days a week normally as it's 4 on and 4 off..
We never actually do 8 hour shifts (the old company did) I stated the shift lengths in the OP.

The issue regarding the unpaid lunch being taken off the holiday entitlement is that it is ONLY taken off for the extra bank holiday days that are given, it's the only place it appears, I work an 11 hour shift I get paid 11 hours, so no unpaid break in regular pay so a bit confusing.

Not that in my job the opportunity for a long break really presents itself anyway but that's another story

getmore4less

5.6 weeks is statutory if your place gives more you need to work with how many weeks that is.


Looks to me like 34 days or 6.8 weeks or 26+BH.