Proof to work in the UK documents

Manxman_in_exile

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

I'm afraid you're wrong, (Thank you - I guessed I was).and even if you were right you can't necessarily trust the Home Office to get it right. There have been several cases highlighted in the Guardian lately where elderly people who arrived in the UK as children, in some cases without a passport (which tells you how long ago it was!) are being deported back their country of birth because they cannot prove that they've been here all this time and thus arrived before certain changes to immigration law. They do have the right to be here, but they cannot prove it. (This is the Catch 22).

To be fair, copies of the documentation used for your CRB check shouldn't really be kept on file. But the fact that you've taken documents in - including that passport? - would IMO go in your favour. You could even ask them to double check their records and make sure your proof of RTW hasn't been put in the wrong place in your HR file!

I'd print it out and not draw attention to what it is. If they don't like it, they'll have to wait a little longer.

I'm not at all surprised they've given a very tight deadline for providing proof. We all know how this goes: well I do anyway. I say to someone "I need to see the following documents so that I can ... enrol you into the pension (in the days before auto-enrolment) / add you to the payroll / carry out your DBS check." They say "oh yes I'll bring them in tomorrow."

Tomorrow I say "Have you got your ..." and they say "Oh no, I knew there was something I needed to bring in" and so it goes on.

We now ask for passports at the interview stage, but there I've had the response of "I'm in the process of moving house and all my documents were in the boot of my car and it was stolen". At least then there's a couple of weeks' grace to get replacements while we take up references, but the bottom line is that if we haven't seen proof of RTW, we can't add to the payroll. There are hefty fines if an employer is caught without being able to show proof of RTW. (But OP has been on payroll for 14 years).

Now, I wouldn't have said that local government was especially likely to make a habit of employing illegal immigrants - but it is possible that there's been some kind of audit which has thrown up the fact that RTW checks have not been happening, or maybe something has happened, or maybe someone in HR just reads the Guardian and thought this should be checked thoroughly.

So, take in what you've got, and if that's not good enough, play for time.

See my comments in red. (I agree with you by the way, although I no longer trust The Guardian to be accurate).


I worked in the NHS up to 2012 and the trust had to check all new employees. The idea that ALL employees would need to be retrospectively checked is bonkers. The cost would be mind-boggling. But I'm not disagreeing with you that this may now be a legal requirement. Bonkers!

supersaver2

Thanks for all the help. I’ll take my documents in on Monday and see what’s what. Worse case I’ll have to apply for a passport and they’ll have to wait. Surely I can’t be the only person in this predicament?! We had a global email later this afternoonl also asking for all professional certificates as well. Luckily I have these to hand. I have definitely handed these in before, I’d have thought copies should have been made the first time!

Stargazing11

Have you got a wageslip from your current employer? This would show NI number. If not, the payroll dept should be able to give you a copy.

Manxman_in_exile

Stargazing11 wrote: »

Have you got a wageslip from your current employer? This would show NI number. If not, the payroll dept should be able to give you a copy.

This is part of the Catch 22. AIUI the NI No has to be on an "official Govt document". This may or may not include correspondence from HMRC. I think OP says he has no such documentation. The wage slip from the employer "proves" nothing because it's his employer who wants proof of his RTW and identity. Apparently his employer has "lost" or destroyed all original documentation from 14 years ago "proving" his NI No from a previous employer. Why should such documentation be kept for 14 years?


EDIT: I still have the nearly 40 year old document from the Isle of Man Govt allocating me a NI No - some things you (as an individual) need to keep.


You work for 14 years (at least), pay your taxes and are then asked for proof of RTW!


If we are now saying the public sector has to retrospectively check all employees it's madness. But if we are saying it's just the OP's LA employer, they need a reality check - whether they've read The Guardian or not.

elsien

You can apply to have your national insurance number sent out to you. Would that work? Certainly be cheaper than a passport. Does take 10 days though.

https://www.gov.uk/lost-national-insurance-number

Savvy_Sue

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

I worked in the NHS up to 2012 and the trust had to check all new employees. The idea that ALL employees would need to be retrospectively checked is bonkers. The cost would be mind-boggling. But I'm not disagreeing with you that this may now be a legal requirement. Bonkers!

Yes, they should have checked all current employees - some years ago!

It sounds - from the request for certificates - as if there's been some kind of audit, and it's thrown up some 'gaps' in HR files which the employer is now trying to cover ASAP. And filling the gaps has to be done for everyone: you can't filter by colour / appearance, accent, or length of employment.

To be fair, I'd struggle to produce an official government document with my NINo on it too! Doubt if I will ever be job hunting again, but I intend to keep my passport safe ...

Manxman_in_exile

elsien wrote: »

You can apply to have your national insurance number sent out to you. Would that work? Certainly be cheaper than a passport. Does take 10 days though.

https://www.gov.uk/lost-national-insurance-number

That will be an official govt document, but will it be on the list of "officially" acceptable ones? Whose to say that NI No relates to the person presenting it?


I think it's difficult to get anywhere without a passport these days. It includes a photo identified by a JP or whatever which directly links you to the personal info etc. My passport had expired 15 years earlier (I had no use for one) but decided to renew it in 2008 specifically to provide proof of identity.

Savvy_Sue

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

EDIT; Don't know how to link to the other thread but it's the one posted by mandyminx entitled "Not Happy" on 28 September.

This is that thread.

It's similar, in that it demonstrates the need to supply the documentation the employer requests ...

In that case, the employer wanted a definite link between the documents. Relying on 'someone must have seen the right documents at some point or it would not have been possible to issue THIS document' has the potential to blow up in the employer's face, just as 'this person has been working here for over 14 years and we must have checked at some point' isn't really good enough.

supersaver2

elsien wrote: »

You can apply to have your national insurance number sent out to you. Would that work? Certainly be cheaper than a passport. Does take 10 days though.

https://www.gov.uk/lost-national-insurance-number

Thank you. I clicked on that and created an account and you can print out yourself your NI number with your name on, yet it says on it it is not proof of right to work. Feels like I’m going round in circles!

I did email my line manager who is chasing paperwork, he told me to print that, bring my full birth certificate and driving license so hoping that’s enough. If it’s really not I’ll just have to get a passport.

supersaver2

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

This is that thread.

It's similar, in that it demonstrates the need to supply the documentation the employer requests ...

In that case, the employer wanted a definite link between the documents. Relying on 'someone must have seen the right documents at some point or it would not have been possible to issue THIS document' has the potential to blow up in the employer's face, just as 'this person has been working here for over 14 years and we must have checked at some point' isn't really good enough.

Just read through that article, quite similar. Almost seems if you are British and want to work you need to buy a passport to do so!