Urgent Advice Required

Cleanfreak_2

I have a small cleaning company with a couple of self employed cleaners. The relationship has broken down between myself and one of them. I no longer trust her to continue working with any of my clients.

Can I withdraw her work immediately?

She has some keys, how do I get these back if she refuses?

She has no contract

Thank you in advance for any advice.

Takeaway_Addict

Cleanfreak wrote: »

I have a small cleaning company with a couple of self employed cleaners. The relationship has broken down between myself and one of them. I no longer trust her to continue working with any of my clients.

Can I withdraw her work immediately?

She has some keys, how do I get these back if she refuses?

She has no contract

Thank you in advance for any advice.

Are they genuinally self employed?

Let's presume they are (I have a niggly feeling they are not but netherless)....what is your written agreement between you and them with regards notice etc?

sangie595

And I'm assuming that they aren't self employed, and she does have a contract!

"Keys, what keys?"

I see an employment tribunal looming in your future.... Unless you don't tell her where to clean, when to clean, how to clean, and whether she in fact had to do the cleaning?

getmore4less

She has no contract

contracts exist if people get paid...

How did you engage them?

How do they get paid?

what insurance do you have?

what contracts do you have with places you send these people.

Cleanfreak_2

Sorry not sure how to reply individually ��

I was told by my tax advisor that she is 'self employed'
No written agreement re notice

I offer the jobs and she can accept or refuse to do them. It is the client that says when and what to clean.

Keys are held by me but passed onto the others if they need them to gain access.

They are paid by bank transfer

I have business insurance for cleaners inc cover for self employed staff

getmore4less

I offer the jobs and she can accept or refuse to do them. It is the client that says when and what to clean.

Stop offering them new jobs,
if there are some already offered/accepted then you need to decide, will you take them off them or not.

Did you ever offer minimum no. of hours a week

Keys are held by me but passed onto the others if they need them to gain access.

Make sure all keys are returned at the end of every cleaning period.
get the keys back first before assigning someone else to the jobs she was assigned to that you plan to take off her.

I have business insurance for cleaners inc cover for self employed staff

does it cover lost keys?
If not and you can't get them back you may need to replace the customers locks.

sangie595

Cleanfreak wrote: »

Sorry not sure how to reply individually ��

I was told by my tax advisor that she is 'self employed'
No written agreement re notice

I offer the jobs and she can accept or refuse to do them. It is the client that says when and what to clean.

Keys are held by me but passed onto the others if they need them to gain access.

They are paid by bank transfer

I have business insurance for cleaners inc cover for self employed staff

I don't ask tax advisors for employment law advice. That's because I expect them to know about tax. Not about employment!

In the absence of any written agreement to the contrary, she is an employee, not a worker. Although there is a legal requirement to provide employees with written terms of employment, many employers do not. However, the contrary is true - to establish a different kind of contract, it needs to be in writing. The law assumes employment unless there is evidence too the contrary.

I would strongly advise you to:
(A) assume her to be an employee, and, if she has two or more years employment, follow a legally fair process for dismissal for a legally fair reason.
(B) Pay her statutory notice and any accrued holiday pay if you can dismiss for a legally fair reason

Unless she and everyone she knows is as clueless about employment law as your tax advisor, she would have almost three months to make a claim to a tribunal. And I can guarantee you that any claim, win or lose, will cost you more than anything you spend now making this an amicable break. Even then you wouldn't be in the clear. Only a settlement agreement could achieve that, and that's a hefty price tag to pay for something of this nature. Although still less than a potential tribunal.

Get your employment act cleaned up. No pun intended. Get proper advice from a legally recognised source and not a tax expert. Or this won't be the last time you face this problem. There is nothing wrong per se in acting as a clearing house for self-employed people - but you have to do it correctly, and that starts with clear written agreements about your respective responsibilities.

Pennywise

Tax and employment law are completely different things and done by completely different professions.

ACG

Put a contract in place.
If nothing else, what is to stop your cleaners going direct to your customers?

I have self employed brokers and they have contracts in place, it confirms what they will receive, when they will receive it, what is expected of them in terms of holiday notice etc.

As others have mentioned, you should read up on the HMRC rules to check they are actually self employed as there are a few points you need to meet.

Assuming they are self employed, I would arrange for them to come in with the keys or pick them up if necessary. If the relationship has broken down that much then it is probably quite likely they have already started looking for alternative employment anyway. But with no contract in place, there is nothing stopping that person poaching your customers.

sangie595

ACG wrote: »

Put a contract in place.
If nothing else, what is to stop your cleaners going direct to your customers?

I have self employed brokers and they have contracts in place, it confirms what they will receive, when they will receive it, what is expected of them in terms of holiday notice etc.

As others have mentioned, you should read up on the HMRC rules to check they are actually self employed as there are a few points you need to meet.

Assuming they are self employed, I would arrange for them to come in with the keys or pick them up if necessary. If the relationship has broken down that much then it is probably quite likely they have already started looking for alternative employment anyway. But with no contract in place, there is nothing stopping that person poaching your customers.

No, not as others have mentioned! The tax definition of self employed is not the same as the employment law definition. In particular now, since there have been multiple successful test cases won around worker's rights and employment status. It is perfectly possible to be self-employed for tax purposes and employed for legal status purposes. The law is changing rapidly in this area. But this has nothing to do with HMRC. They have no legal jurisdiction to determine employment status, only taxable position.

ACG

sangie595 wrote: »

No, not as others have mentioned! The tax definition of self employed is not the same as the employment law definition. In particular now, since there have been multiple successful test cases won around worker's rights and employment status. It is perfectly possible to be self-employed for tax purposes and employed for legal status purposes. The law is changing rapidly in this area. But this has nothing to do with HMRC. They have no legal jurisdiction to determine employment status, only taxable position.

You are correct, what I actually meant was government guidelines for employees - DWP guidelines?

Although I still stand by what I said to some extent. With no contract in place and limited advice by the sounds of it our OP should still be checking that they are working within the HMRC rules.