Has an extra year been inserted into pre university schooling?

AnotherJoe

elverson wrote: »

The current secondary school system is:

Year 7 (pupils turn 12 between 1 September and 31 August)
Year 8
Year 9
Year 10
Year 11 (GCSE year)
Year 12 (Lower Sixth)
Year 13 (Upper Sixth - pupils turn 18 during the year and most pupils complete UCAS applications during this year)

A pupil going straight from school to university will turn 19 during their first year of uni. The above assumes pupils haven't been moved ahead or held back a year.

And that is exactly how it was when i left school in the mid 70's and my kids in the noughties. The OP is the anomaly, not his daughters

GunJack

^^^ agreed

westernpromise

Cornucopia wrote: »

I think it would help if you told us the names that were applied to these school years at the time.

I did a number of O Level exams dotted around from the end of my 4th year (when I had just turned 15) to the winter term of my Lower 6th. It was just an easier way of picking up a large batch of O Levels without stressing too much.

Well, ours weren't very informative, but essentially it went

Class name / current name / birthday that year
Third / Year 6 / 11
Fourth / Year 7 / 12
Upper Fourth / Year 8 / 13
Divisions / Year 9 / 14 (2 x O-Levels)
Fifth / Year 10 / 15 / (3 x O-Levels, 2 x AO-Levels)
Lower Sixth / Year 11 / 16 (2 x AO-Levels)
Sixth / Year 12 / 17 (3 x A-Levels)
Upper Sixth / Year 13 / 18 (CCE, November)

so it looks like a one year dislocation.

I started school at 4 like everyone but back then somehow got to A Levels a year earlier. So all I am trying to figure out is whether there has been another year added or whether everyone now starts a year later.

If I was in fact a year ahead I struggle to work out what year I skipped...and I can't have been that exceptional because there were loads like me of a similar age. Those who were already 18 when they took their As were regarded as fogeys.

GunJack

westernpromise wrote: »

Well, ours weren't very informative, but essentially it went

Class name / current name / birthday that year
Third / Year 6 / 11
Fourth / Year 7 / 12
Upper Fourth / Year 8 / 13
Divisions / Year 9 / 14 (2 x O-Levels)
Fifth / Year 10 / 15 / (3 x O-Levels, 2 x AO-Levels)
Lower Sixth / Year 11 / 16 (2 x AO-Levels)
Sixth / Year 12 / 17 (3 x A-Levels)
Upper Sixth / Year 13 / 18 (CCE, November)

so it looks like a one year dislocation.

I started school at 4 like everyone but back then somehow got to A Levels a year earlier. So all I am trying to figure out is whether there has been another year added or whether everyone now starts a year later.

From your breakdown, neither, but the anomoly appears to be with your system - were you in a grammar school area perhaps? Or an area with middle schools?

You also appear to be doing some O-Levels a year earlier than was done up our way (13-14 rather than 14-15). It would appear to fit with a school-leaving age of 15 not 16 also. Your lower sixth/sixth/upper sixth looks odd too, no CCE (what was that?), straight 2 yrs for A-level 16-18..

GunJack

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-tier_education

does the diagram on this page explain it possibly?

westernpromise

This was a local private school. You could go in at 11+, 13+ (common entrance) or in effect 14+. The first and last of those offered a two-thirds fees discount to the top applicants. Common entrance entrants paid full whack. So swots who couldn't afford the fees were pressured to try to get in at 11+ or 14+, with about 24 being admitted in each year. Obviously not all got the 2/3rds-off-the-fees deal, typically it was about 4 or 5.

If you went in via CE, you went into the Upper Fourth (Year 8) and if you did the 14+ you did that a year later but went into the next form up ("Divisions" = Year 9). This year was so called because it was the first point at which you were divided into sets - for the two O Levels you'd be sitting that year. So you were back among the same peers, who'd just moved on a year earlier than you had, but were still in your year.

So although there were some kids who, as today, were pushing 19 before they sat their A Levels, they had, I am sure, done exactly the same amount of schooling as everyone my age, which is to say 13 years. They'd just started a year later.

westernpromise

Voyager2002 wrote: »

I seem to recall (mid-1970s) that the unconditional offers were made to those who had won a university scholarship or exhibition. Those who took the university entrance exams and "merely" got a place were required to get at least two grade E passes at 'A' level. Those who did not wish to be assessed by the university entrance exams would, if successful, be offered places conditional on obtaining high grades at 'A' level.

That's ringing a bell. You could, now I think about it, apply to (eg) Cambridge for a place, be interviewed, and then be invited to sit the CCE. There were those who had not sat it but got in on offers, and there were others who'd been required to sit it because their A Levels didn't demonstrate some requirement.

So scientists who didn't have an arts subject A Level were usually required to sit the CCE because it contained a "General" paper that tested if they could write an essay and think other than mathematically. If you were applying to read English you'd be spared the General paper because your ability to write essays was being tested anyway but if you didn't have a language A Level, which was a requirement, you'd have to do the CCE language paper.

System

westernpromise wrote: »

I don't recall any Lower Sixth offers or indeed any unconditional ones, but what did happen was that they offered you two Es. This was then the minimum legal requirement for admission to any university; .

I remember those. But I don't think there was then (1968) or indeed now an actual legal minimum? I think a college can take anyone it likes regardless of formal qualifications.

Cakeguts

I went to Polytechnic in 1976. (yes I am an old git) I was born in 1957. I did 6 O levels in 74 and 2 A levels and another O level in 76. The O level in 76 was German and it was 5 terms of course from start of learning the language to passing the O level. I only needed 2 A levels to do a course at university due to the needing to do a lot of music practice. I went to a Poly because the Poly course had more options after it and university course then required everyone to be able to play the piano and I just don't have enough coordination to every be able to do that. It was for the keyboard harmony. I had to do keyboard harmony for my A level practical. So everyone had to be able to play the piano even if only a bit. We didn't get a second chance to try to get better grades in any part of the courses. Practical exams were one go and that was it. A level exams were one go and that was it. Much more like working where you can't have several goes to do your job correctly. Although much of the paper work from offices these days means that you have to have several goes to get it right.

The problems that I have with the A levels and GCSEs is that they miss out so much of the information that you need to study music anywhere and unless you go to a school where they teach the rest of what you need to know as well as the A level syllabus you will never be able to catch up. Doing basic harmony exercises in the 3rd year of a university music course is too late. You needed to know this before you started the course.