Its claw back time - they are reneging on the deal!

zeupater

Cardew wrote: »

The argument would surely be they haven't touched FIT;) merely imposed a new tax on solar generation - like The Window Tax of 1696!

:shhh: ... You know that you shouldn't mention that tax on windows, Micro$oft would throw a wobbly and even more ministers would need to resign .... :wall::D

Anyway, the proposal's likely just as enforceable as the window tax ... what do they do when you can't tell the difference between a panel & a brick and exactly how many solar-panel detector vans do we expect to see on the roads ... unless there's legislation to change planning rules to require all installations are registered centrally whether on the FiT register or not then it's a farce in the making & has the potential to completely scupper the UK's position on the Paris Agreement ... don't you just wish that government would at least attempt to use joined-up-thinking before wasting public funds! ....

Z

EricMears

zeupater wrote: »

I do trust that everyone will be taking part in the consultation ...

I think you'll find that the 'consultation period' is already over !

zeupater

EricMears wrote: »

I think you'll find that the 'consultation period' is already over !

Hi

I was aware of one earlier this year & it did mention that it was likely to be followed up if needed, so expected this to be the case when raised earlier ... Ofgem/BEIS still deserve a poke in the ribs for wasting time&effort thinking up flawed solutions to problems which don't exist ... must have too many people looking for things to do other than 'real work' ...

Hands up anyone who thinks that they'd be able to run a regulatory department better than the current incumbents :hello::hello::hello: ... steady, steady, no pushing - there is an orderly queue you know ... STOP it Mr Gumby, I know you're more than amply suited compared to the previous Mr Incumbent, yes, we all know your brain hurts :wall:but you'll just have to patiently wait your turn like everyone else ...

Z

ard123en

Mine was only installed 2 months ago my fit is tiny if this happens will be more tempted to take solar edge out replace with pip 5048 buy a shead loads of 18650s more panels and a generator go off grid

silverwhistle

Can you get gas-fired generators?

Martyn1981

silverwhistle wrote: »

Can you get gas-fired generators?

Yes.

At the moment they cost an absolute fortune, but there are fuel-cell domestic boilers than can run on methane and generate leccy at 50% efficiency, with another 25% or so as heat output for central heating, water heating.

If you combined this with PV, batts and an ASHP, then you could power the house in sunny months from PV + batts, then heat the house in the colder months from fuel cell boiler, plus ASHP, with the batts acting to balance out demand and supply.

Then disconnect from the leccy grid.

But, as I said, very expensive, £10k+, and annual maintenance, but it's another option down the line, the more the merrier.

michaels

silverwhistle wrote: »

Can you get gas-fired generators?

There seems to be some sort of 'sterling cycle' boiler that generates and uses spare heat for space and water heating. Reliability is apparently pants but given that it attracts a fit I thought it would probably be possible to get the maths to work if you had an indoor swimming pool....

Kernel_Sanders

Martyn1981 wrote: »

there are fuel-cell domestic boilers than can run on methane and generate leccy at 50% efficiency

I'm surprised it's that low. Is commercial gas powered generation any better?

Martyn1981

Kernel_Sanders wrote: »

I'm surprised it's that low. Is commercial gas powered generation any better?

For CCGT it can be as high as 60%, but the heat output is usually wasted.

50% efficiency for a domestic generator is incredible, and that's before adding in the heating benefit.

Think of it this way, burn 2kWhs of gas in a boiler and perhaps get 1.6kWh of heat.

Put 2kWh's through the fuel cell, get 0.5kWh of heat plus 1kWh of leccy. So a comparable worse case scenario of 1.5kWh of heat.

But put that kWh of leccy through an ASHP with an annual average COP of 2.9, and you have 2.9kWhs of heat + 0.5kWh = 3.4kWh's v's 1.6kWh.

Or you have 1kWh of leccy for approx 5p of gas.

Sterlingtimes

michaels wrote: »

But the whole point of the 'plan' seems to be that there is no claim (legal?) that the fit deal is being reneged on. Instead those who generate on site will pay an extra standing charge to reflect the fact that their own generation usage means they use less grid energy and thus somehow no longer pay their 'share' of distribution costs ....

This is the crux of the issue. But, stripping all morals out of this, the apparent miscreants are all of those who use less electricity than they ought to all being equal.

So the old lady/gentleman who wears a couple of jumpers and an overcoat to keep her/his electricity bill down is also not contributing sufficient to the upkeep of the grid. The same would apply to second home users who use very little energy.

Solar exploiters are only one type of sinner.

Essentially, good compliant people use a lots of energy and over contribute and bad non-compliant people contrive to use less energy and under contribute.

This goes against everything that we are taught about being frugal.

Miscreant list of under contributors:
solar households;
second homes;
small businesses used for limited hours;
the frugal pensioners;
the frugal disabled;
the frugal poor;
those who contrive to use gas in preference to electricity, e.g. gas tumble dryer;
those with gas heated water rather electricity heated water.

All of these classes should pay a standing charge premium because their behaviour is now adjudged to be undesirable.

OFGEM's difficulty is that it cannot be seen to ignore the moral part of the equation, so it will be selective in defining policy such that it cherry picks the classes that will pay more. A universal increase in standing charge punishes the low energy user. Politically, it may be wiser to do nothing.