Reference provider says they will only give verbal reference. What to make of it?

JamesFuller

Hello all,

I am helping a colleague the redundancy and getting back up.

His former manager says he is happy to provide a reference but only on a phone call and verbal basis. He cannot do any written references.

Is this a good thing? Or does it seem not reliable? What is the general advice?

Comms69

Need a bit more context, is the manager also being made redundant?

steampowered

These days it is not unusual for employers to refuse to give any reference at all, beyond confirming job title and dates of employment.

The manager probably wants to avoid putting things in writing to reduce the risk of being sued by the employer (if a good reference) or the employee (if a bad reference).

A lot of managers do this as a matter of course nowadays - it does not necessarily reflect on the employee. The new employer should be fine with it as long as the manager gives them good feedback over the phone.

PasturesNew

An increasing number of employers simply don't have the time/resources to give references to past staff. Whatever the reason, it's a trend that's been growing in the last 15 years and not giving a reference is no indicator of anything any more.

sangie595

steampowered wrote: »

These days it is not unusual for employers to refuse to give any reference at all, beyond confirming job title and dates of employment.

The manager probably wants to avoid putting things in writing to reduce the risk of being sued by the employer (if a good reference) or the employee (if a bad reference).

A lot of managers do this as a matter of course nowadays - it does not necessarily reflect on the employee. The new employer should be fine with it as long as the manager gives them good feedback over the phone.

I'd have to observe that this would not be acceptable for a wide range of employers. I don't know what the OPs friend does, or what industry they are in. But verbal references would not be acceptable pretty much anywhere in the public sector; nowhere in the care sector - including even the most low grade employment in anything with vulnerable people; pretty much nowhere where money is handled - which would include much of the retail sector, not just banking or finance; and actually, unless the potential employer actually knows the referee - a verbal reference wouldn't be widely accepted by most employers. It would leave far too many unanswered questions about why they wouldn't put it in writing, and equally it leaves the recruiters open to potential litigation because they would have no evidence of having taken up references or what that reference "says". Or even that the person that they speak to is the manager!

It could be that this is a misunderstanding. Some employers refuse to allow their managers to write references - because references are controlled centrally by HR or some such thing. Is it possible that this is the policy of the employer.? In which case, they need to clarify this matter.

Yes, it may be the employers policy to provide only a basic reference. But an awful lot - in my opinion, the majority, although I cannot prove that by anything other than experience - would be very worried if there was no reference and the only reference was that of a person who was unwilling to put anything in writing.

BorisThomson

I have a feeling James' "friend" works in the professional services sector, and has also had problems in previous employment.

He may also have friends called Nathaniel and Andrew.

PasturesNew

sangie595 wrote: »

.... not just banking or finance...

A lot of my background was spent in IT/finance sector - and that was one of the first firms in my CV that stopped giving references. There was some buy out and that was the new rule.

I just looked it up, it was a 2008 outsourcing contract with IBM they signed up for. After that employees under that were no longer allowed to give references for people who'd worked with/under them in the previous direct employment situation. The contract was worth about £1.5billion, so I'm not talking about "tin pot little players".

sangie595

PasturesNew wrote: »

A lot of my background was spent in IT/finance sector - and that was one of the first firms in my CV that stopped giving references. There was some buy out and that was the new rule.

I just looked it up, it was a 2008 outsourcing contract with IBM they signed up for. After that employees under that were no longer allowed to give references for people who'd worked with/under them in the previous direct employment situation. The contract was worth about £1.5billion, so I'm not talking about "tin pot little players".

That may be true for you. I assume you mean they don't even confirm dates of employment? As in no reference? But in significant parts of the finance industry it is actually a requirement in law that they must provide references. And there is a difference between employees not being allowed to give references and no references being given are all. Refusing any reference is very rare - and usually means something bad. Which is why employers are wary of such situations.

jobbingmusician

BorisThomson wrote: »

I have a feeling James' "friend" works in the professional services sector, and has also had problems in previous employment.

He may also have friends called Nathaniel and Andrew.

What is this about? I'm obviously missing something....

sangie595

jobbingmusician wrote: »

What is this about? I'm obviously missing something....

Me too! Maybe it's my background, but I thought "professional services" involved something more "personal"!!!

JamesFuller

Good point. He is in professional service, in IT.

I suppose this is common in such sectors?