Advice please Self employed but working for same person

Andyph

Evening all,

After some advice please for my father in law. He is a self employed builder but has worked for the same person for over 7 years now. I July he had to have a hop operation and has been unable to work.

2 parts, 1. he has been turned down for esa and sick pay as apparently he hasn't paid enough NI stamp. He said he has always paid as gets sent a letter and just pays the lowest option.The basic told him if he keeps sending in sick notes they will just pay his stamp for him but that's it.

2. This is the main point, as he has walked solely for the same person is he not classed as employed by them? if so he has missed out on sick pay / holiday / pension contributions etc

any advice be greatly received.

DUTR

I don't know, I would have thought that as SE, one would take insurace cover for such eventualities.

nicechap

Was he registered as self employed with HMRC?

Did he employ an accountant to do his returns?

How did he pay tax? - was it on the total amount received, and did he claim for his tools, petrol, van etc or was it stopped at source and he provided with all his tools, petrol, van etc.

sangie595

He was self-employed, paid the lowest option, didn't take out insurance... And this is now the main contractors fault? Sorry, but why do you think that he is suddenly employed? Just because he has chosen to only work for one person doesn't make him their employee. Self employment in building work is very common. And there are specifically tax advantages to this which are widely utilised. Did he use them? This really does seem to be a case of he is getting (or not getting) what he paid for. Whilst sympathetic with his circumstances, I'm not sure why you think this is someone else's problem. These were his choices.

But I don't understand why he has been refused ESA - I understood that is available to self- employed people. Is it the case that he's been told that he is not too sick to work ? ESA is only available to people who cannot work - not just people who can't pursue their normal occupation. If he just needs a hip replacement, speaking as someone who had had one, that doesn't prevent you from working.

But there is more to this than meets the eye. The benefits system is bad, yes. But it doesn't leave people with no options at all. Either he can job seek and claim JSA or UC. Or he has too many savings or another income in the household that makes income based benefits impossible. But much as I hate the current government, they do not leave people with no options - just, possibly, unpalatable ones.

Andyph

Hi

wow thank for all the nice feedback! just asked as i was sure that i had read somewhere that if you work for the same person for many then a certain amount of years then you are classed as employeed by them

jobbingmusician

If he doesn't have savings (or even if he does!) it would be worth him visiting https://www.entitledto.co.uk/ to see if there are any benefits he is entitled to. This may also help to clarify the ESA issue.

74jax

Andyph wrote: »

Hi

wow thank for all the nice feedback! just asked as i was sure that i had read somewhere that if you work for the same person for many then a certain amount of years then you are classed as employeed by them

Maybe a contractor might, I'm not sure on that, but surely self employed take out insurance.....

sangie595

Andyph wrote: »

Hi

wow thank for all the nice feedback! just asked as i was sure that i had read somewhere that if you work for the same person for many then a certain amount of years then you are classed as employeed by them

No. You didn't. And I still don't see why you think that it's someone else's fault that he made the choices he did. Nor have you explained why he can't claim one of the income based benefits - contributions are not the only gateway to benefits.

bugslet

Andyph wrote: »

Hi

wow thank for all the nice feedback! just asked as i was sure that i had read somewhere that if you work for the same person for many then a certain amount of years then you are classed as employeed by them

No.

He's self-employed, therefore he could work for someone else if he wanted.

I'm sorry to hear your father is struggling with his health, but he's had the benefits of self-employment and your post does rather read that he thinks that he should also have the benefits of employment as well.

I'm a director of a limited company and I pay in for three insurances personally to cover future ill-health, despite being an employee.

Sarastro

The legislation you've heard about is IR35 which was designed to tackle people who used limited companies to earn money off payroll and therefore avoid NI payments. I'm not sure HMRC would classify him as employed now if he has been declaring himself self-employed...if they did, they would recover NIC's from the employer, but they would also probably re-evaluate your father in law's previous tax returns. And I assume he deducted lots of expenses to reduce his income tax bill so he may well end up with a whopping income tax bill. He should have spent some money on insurance or income protection.