Why do we use so much energy

michaels

NineDeuce wrote: »

That just doesnt make sense. If you recognise that temperatures throughout the year then you cant say that your heating comes on/off at particular times.

The OP says that the heating is on 24/7, so there are no timer controls. Therefore, time has no bearing.

And this is still kind of besides the point. You dont need to heat a house to 22 degrees, especially when the outside temperature is mild.....

My feeling is we want the house to be 22 degrees inside in the daytime regardless of the temperature outside and a minimum of 17 degrees at night so we set the heating controls and times appropriately. The boiler has weather compensation control, it samples the outside temperature and adjusts the flow and return temperature accordingly and modulates / switches off and on as required. On installation we set the heating curve gradient and vertical shift in order to make sure that it adjusts correctly for the outside temperature and the energy characteristics of the house.

There is no need to turn the heating off in the summer it just does not come on unless the weather is unseasonably cold.

Cardew

Originally Posted by Cardew
OP's house is well insulated so I doubt if there are many nights in the year where the house temperature would drop by 4C/5C to 17C in 7 hours.

My heating is also set to 21-22C in the evening and drops to 18C at 9.30pm and back up to 21C at 6am for 2 hours. I have a thermometer that displays the minimum temperature reached outside and inside. IIRC last winter the internal temperature never dropped to 18C, so the heating never kicked on overnight.

NineDeuce wrote: »

That just doesnt make sense. If you recognise that temperatures throughout the year then you cant say that your heating comes on/off at particular times.

The OP says that the heating is on 24/7, so there are no timer controls. Therefore, time has no bearing.

And this is still kind of besides the point. You dont need to heat a house to 22 degrees, especially when the outside temperature is mild.....

Because you appear not to understand our heating controls, it doesn't mean that the OP's and my post 'doesn't make sense'.

My remote(room) thermostat allows me to set several different heating profiles; and like the OP in winter heating is on 24/7. In my post I stated that I have the thermostat set to 21/22C in the evening until 9:30pm when it reverts to 18C until 6am when it goes to 21C.

With a separate thermometer I can monitor the coldest external and internal temperature reached overnight. Even on the coldest nights the internal temperature(where the thermostat and thermometer are situated) never drops to 18C between 9:30pm and 6am so the boiler never fires up during that period. In effect the heating is off.

That doesn't mean that bedrooms and other reception rooms wont drop below 18C - that depends on the setting of the TRV before 9:30pm. For instance a bedroom might be at, say, 19C at 9:30pm and might drop to, say 16C overnight.

I really don't understand your last paragraph.

You dont need to heat a house to 22 degrees, especially when the outside temperature is mild.

In a room 22C is 22C regardless of the outside temperature. If it is mild(say 16C) it means the boiler is on for shorter periods to maintain 22C.

If that paragraph means, that in your opinion, the OP and I shouldn't have the temperature at 22C? We beg to differ!

Martyn1981

michaels wrote: »

My feeling is we want the house to be 22 degrees inside in the daytime regardless of the temperature outside and a minimum of 17 degrees at night so we set the heating controls and times appropriately.

This might come down to different people, different temps etc, but I've found that more than 20C in the heating months with windows/doors closed is too warm, whilst 22C seems a more comfortable temp in the non-heating months due to airflow, windows, doors etc etc.

You might find that slowly bringing the temp down from 22C is fine and saves you a lot of gas.

BTW, still can't figure out how non-heating gas consumption is around 2,000kWh here (for 2) but closer to 20k for you (for 5). I still suspect there is something wrong in the assumptions.

NineDeuce

Cardew wrote: »

Because you appear not to understand our heating controls, it doesn't mean that the OP's and my post 'doesn't make sense'.

My remote(room) thermostat allows me to set several different heating profiles; and like the OP in winter heating is on 24/7. In my post I stated that I have the thermostat set to 21/22C in the evening until 9:30pm when it reverts to 18C until 6am when it goes to 21C.

With a separate thermometer I can monitor the coldest external and internal temperature reached overnight. Even on the coldest nights the internal temperature(where the thermostat and thermometer are situated) never drops to 18C between 9:30pm and 6am so the boiler never fires up during that period. In effect the heating is off.

That doesn't mean that bedrooms and other reception rooms wont drop below 18C - that depends on the setting of the TRV before 9:30pm. For instance a bedroom might be at, say, 19C at 9:30pm and might drop to, say 16C overnight.

I really don't understand your last paragraph.



In a room 22C is 22C regardless of the outside temperature. If it is mild(say 16C) it means the boiler is on for shorter periods to maintain 22C.

If that paragraph means, that in your opinion, the OP and I shouldn't have the temperature at 22C? We beg to differ!

Did you honestly suggest that it was ME who doesnt understand heating controls?

"In a room 22C is 22C regardless of the outside temperature. If it is mild(say 16C) it means the boiler is on for shorter periods to maintain 22C."

Yes that's right. What's your point? My point is that you would change your heating set points to 16C, so then you wouldnt have the heating on at a period when not necessary. You could even put it lower... and.... as suggested... wear a jumper. You dont even need to know technical terms such as weather compensation to understand that principle....

[Deleted User]

Cardew wrote: »

In a room 22C is 22C regardless of the outside temperature.

Thermostats monitor and control air temperature, but the body loses heat via convection, radiation, conduction, and evaporation. So if the air temperature is maintained, as the weather gets colder the wall temperature also gets colder, and you lose more heat by radiation to the walls. That's why well insulated homes feel subjectively more comfortable even when the thermometer says they're the same temperature.

"air temperature alone is not a valid or accurate indicator of thermal comfort........Radiant temperature has a greater influence than air temperature on how we lose or gain heat"

Cardew

NineDeuce wrote: »

Did you honestly suggest that it was ME who doesnt understand heating controls?

"In a room 22C is 22C regardless of the outside temperature. If it is mild(say 16C) it means the boiler is on for shorter periods to maintain 22C."

Yes that's right. What's your point? My point is that you would change your heating set points to 16C, so then you wouldnt have the heating on at a period when not necessary. You could even put it lower... and.... as suggested... wear a jumper. You dont even need to know technical terms such as weather compensation to understand that principle....

??????

If you do understand heating controls, what do you mean by this post:

That just doesnt make sense. If you recognise that temperatures throughout the year then you cant say that your heating comes on/off at particular times.

The OP says that the heating is on 24/7, so there are no timer controls. Therefore, time has no bearing.

And this is still kind of besides the point. You dont need to heat a house to 22 degrees, especially when the outside temperature is mild.....

The OP and I state we want our rooms to be at 22C and I am stating that, in a well insulated house, a room heated to 22C until 11pm will rarely drop to 17C overnight.

That the OP has the heating on 24/7, does not mean 'time has no bearing' He has set his system to effectively shut off heating at 11pm and on again at 6am - with the proviso that if the temperature drops below 17C during those 7 hours the heating will switch back on to maintain at least 17C until 6am.

So please explain what 'doesn't make sense'.

NineDeuce

Cardew wrote: »

??????

If you do understand heating controls, what do you mean by this post:

The OP and I state we want our rooms to be at 22C and I am stating that, in a well insulated house, a room heated to 22C until 11pm will rarely drop to 17C overnight.

That the OP has the heating on 24/7, does not mean 'time has no bearing' He has set his system to effectively shut off heating at 11pm and on again at 6am - with the proviso that if the temperature drops below 17C during those 7 hours the heating will switch back on to maintain at least 17C until 6am.

So please explain what 'doesn't make sense'.

Everything makes sense. You are just clearly ignoring the bits that you want to ignore.

What part of 'dropping set points/temperature requirements' do you not understand?

22 degrees is unnecessary. Buildings only need to be heated to 15.5 degrees, especially during warm periods.

A person who just wants to have their house heated to 22 degrees at home while wearing a t-shirt or in bed should not complain that simultaneously, heating bills are higher than should be. It is that simple.

(cue another post inferring that I dont know what I am talking about....)

silverwhistle

I'd have to say that the OP's temperature requirements do seem high.As jack_pott mentions perception also comes into it.

I mentioned above my annual imported fuel for one: 1100 KwH electric and 600 gas. That is due to my PV panels and wood burner. I didn't have the GCH on at all last winter except for when I came back from a skiing holiday and wanted to get the temperature up quickly. The CH was on constant at a low temperature during the holiday with the loft hatch open as frost protection, but no (or very little) gas used.

I never feel the absence of CH even though I'm retired but occasionally do some teaching and translation in my upstairs office. The stove is on in the lounge if necessary and doors are opened when that is up to temperature so the whole house benefits. I've been extremely cold in my life skiing and sailing and see no virtue in being cold, but have no issues with putting on a light weight jumper or thin fleece as a comfy alternative to whacking up the heating. I'd also do the latter if necessary but I find that adjusting my heating to my needs and my perception of need, as and when, suits me.

Good luck with doing that with 5 of you.

Cardew

NineDeuce wrote: »

(cue another post inferring that I dont know what I am talking about....)

Wasn't it you telling the OP and I that our posts made no sense?

No doubt your posts were a model of clarity, it is just that I genuinely couldn't understand the points you were making.

I have now taken note that 22C is unnecessary and what we should wear.

JimLad

Turn the thermostat down 2 degrees and shower only once a day.

Probably reduce your costs by 20%