BBC house price report

GreatApe

GunJack wrote: »

oh, and forgot to add...£407 plus £300 for CT/gas/elec/water/buildings & contents insurance, plus £200 for car (fuel, tax, insurance for a 20-ish y.o.) because often no car=no job coz public transport up north (as you seem to see it) is woefully inadequate and a car is essential, pension contributions, NI, tax, and they are then living on around £50-100 a month.....

You are making irrelevant points, The cost of buying a house in much of the country is cheap and very affordable

Your council tax or gas or electric or car is irrelevant. A 3 bedroom terrace (which is above the average property in the uk as the average property only has 2.7 bedrooms) in our second biggest city can be had for just £120,000 and the mortgage on it is so cheap that the interest portion is often less than HALF THAT OF SOCIAL RENTS. How can you argue housing in the cheaper half of the country is expensive when its cheaper than even social housing?

But cars...no!

And I used to live up north in Middlesborough and I used to use the Bus and the Train it was fine however like most people I moved onto a car because I could afford it not because trains and buses didn't exist.

GreatApe

GunJack wrote: »

Yes, people on repayment mortgages have been paying down the debt, but equity is a function of mortgage amount AND POTENTIAL SELLING PRICE, not just the mortgage debt...and bear in mind the current mortgage debt is potentially (and often is) still higher than the CURRENT valuation of the house because of how low the house price is currently....

You are making up examples that do not exist or represent less than 1% of households. No one who bought a house in 2007 in Birmingham is in negative equity they are already 10/25th the way through their mortgage and only 3-4% of homes transacted in the peak year 2007 the other 96-97% of homes transacted before or after than point

In your brum example above, how is someone on £16k salary supposed to get £30+k together for deposit & buying costs, oh, and get a mortgage 5 or 6 times salary these days????

They need to grow up and realize the country does not need or want single men on minimum wage living alone in a 3 bedroom terrace houses.

..and yes, more people north of coventry get paid that much for a ft job, it balances all the southern high salaries to give a national average salary of £26k..
no offence, but your argument sucks....

The idea that most the people outside the south are on minimum wage is stupid

chappers

GunJack wrote: »

Yes, people on repayment mortgages have been paying down the debt, but equity is a function of mortgage amount AND POTENTIAL SELLING PRICE, not just the mortgage debt...and bear in mind the current mortgage debt is potentially (and often is) still higher than the CURRENT valuation of the house because of how low the house price is currently....

Interest rates have been low, yes, but that's only part of the buying picture, all the other costs add up too, and the affordability checks have had an effect also.

In your brum example above, how is someone on £16k salary supposed to get £30+k together for deposit & buying costs, oh, and get a mortgage 5 or 6 times salary these days????

..and yes, more people north of coventry get paid that much for a ft job, it balances all the southern high salaries to give a national average salary of £26k..

no offence, but your argument sucks....

They're not.


It's a fact of life not everyone can afford a house and you talk about first time job salaries, maybe that's the problem with society nowadays everyone believes they should just be able to go out and afford this and that straight away.
In 1987 my first job paid £265 a month, I became fully qualified 4 years later and was earning £500 a month I was under no illusion that I could afford a house. We bought our first house when I was 27, pooling our salaries.
We didn't own a car for another couple of years and had cast off furniture.
Affordability is a function of salary over cost, Birmingham is relatively affordable, say compared to where I live in Oxford

Brum ave salary £25,481 ave house price £181,282
Oxford ave salary £29,442 ave house price £507,763

GunJack

GreatApe wrote: »

You are making irrelevant points don't think so, going through it with my eldest at the moment, The cost of buying a house in much of the country is cheap and very affordable

Your council tax or gas or electric or car is irrelevant.
Err....no, when you buy & live in a house, they are very real costs

A 3 bedroom terrace (which is above the average property in the uk as the average property only has 2.7 bedrooms) in our second biggest city can be had for just £120,000 and the mortgage on it is so cheap that the interest portion is often less than HALF THAT OF SOCIAL RENTS. How can you argue housing in the cheaper half of the country is expensive when its cheaper than even social housing?

But cars...no! Actually, yes.

And I used to live up north in Middlesborough and I used to use the Bus and the Train it was fine however like most people I moved onto a car because I could afford it not because trains and buses didn't exist.
Lucky you in 'Boro...there's an awful lot of areas and workplaces where public transport isn't a viable option and even where it is, cost can be similar to car, therefore a car is essential, like where I work, and also where my lad works.
And to get a better job, you need to travel...err....by car

easiest way to reply ^^^

GunJack

chappers wrote: »

They're not.


It's a fact of life not everyone can afford a house and you talk about first time job salaries, maybe that's the problem with society nowadays everyone believes they should just be able to go out and afford this and that straight away.
In 1987 my first job paid £265 a month, I became fully qualified 4 years later and was earning £500 a month I was under no illusion that I could afford a house. We bought our first house when I was 27, pooling our salaries.
We didn't own a car for another couple of years and had cast off furniture.
Affordability is a function of salary over cost, Birmingham is relatively affordable, say compared to where I live in Oxford

Brum ave salary £25,481 ave house price £181,282
Oxford ave salary £29,442 ave house price £507,763

And you've fallen into the "averages" trap...as this BBC report has highlighted, they are averages, they don't apply to large parts of the country. Whether Brum is more affordable than Oxford, I would agree with that as a general statement, but I bet there's way more social housing and lower earners in Brum than Oxford...

GreatApe

GunJack wrote: »

easiest way to reply ^^^

Why is your boy only on £16,000 a year?
That seems an issue you and he need to improve upon.

Anyway, while you sit and feel sorry for yourself the rest of the country will move on. Will get decent payed jobs will couple up and will buy property and get on with their lives. No matter your protests the fact is homes in much of the country are so cheap a mortgage costs less than social rents (the bar for cheapness)

GunJack

GreatApe wrote: »

Why is your boy only on £16,000 a year?
That seems an issue you and he need to improve upon.

Anyway, while you sit and feel sorry for yourself the rest of the country will move on. Will get decent payed jobs will couple up and will buy property and get on with their lives. No matter your protests the fact is homes in much of the country are so cheap a mortgage costs less than social rents (the bar for cheapness)

For his age (under 20) , in this area (ex-mining & steel), he's actually doing quite well...and even the ONS have seen the trend, with something like 87% of ft earners being under the average salary in the country (Oct 2016 analysis) and mainly clustered around the NMW....

I don't dispute that the mortgage/social rent monthly £ cost may be similar in a lot of places, but as to being achievable (buying costs, deposits, mortgage lending criteria, other essential costs) then for a hellova lot of people, they are not....

GreatApe

GunJack wrote: »

For his age (under 20) , in this area (ex-mining & steel), he's actually doing quite well...

£16,000 per year for a full time job is almost minimum wage that isn't doing well that really is at the bottom of the pile. BTW I dont say that to be disrespectful just to note a fact.

and even the ONS have seen the trend, with something like 87% of ft earners being under the average salary in the country (Oct 2016 analysis) and mainly clustered around the NMW....

This can not be correct, by definition 50% of full time workers earn more than the median wage for full time workers and 50% earn less.

I don't dispute that the mortgage/social rent monthly £ cost may be similar in a lot of places, but as to being achievable (buying costs, deposits, mortgage lending criteria, other essential costs) then for a hellova lot of people, they are not....

I dont agree, even in your sons case he earns £1,180 per month post taxes and I assume he lives at home with you and is 18. He could save £900 a month if he was MSE. In 6 years time that is £65k and if he meets a nice girl in the same situation as himself they can pool their savings and have £120,000 to buy outright a 3 bedroom terrace. It might sound boring living at home between 18-24 but people need to make scarifies if they want to get ahead financially and the outcome would be that he is a homeowner without a mortgage by the time he is 24 how can that not be cheap/affordable?

He would be buying a bigger than average house on the lowest wages possible by age 24 that seems fine to me

Most people of course earn more than the min wage and most people also get some parental help when buying their first house or getting married

EDIT: If he used the Lifetime ISA he could also have an additional £6k to put towards the house courtesy of the government. If his future partner did the same that is an additional combined £12k so they might be able to do it in less than 6 years

Malthusian

GreatApe wrote: »

£16,000 per year for a full time job is almost minimum wage that isn't doing well that really is at the bottom of the pile. BTW I dont say that to be disrespectful just to note a fact.

An alternative fact? Minimum wage for a 19 year old is £5.60 an hour. 40 hours x 52 weeks x £5.60 = £11,648 per year.

Why GunJack thinks his presumably single and childless 19 year old should be buying a 3 bedroom house is the real issue...

westernpromise

I wouldn't presume he's childless at 19 in Brum. What else is there to do? GunJack's probably in his early 30s himself.