Followed newbie guide now STUCK at appeal reply :/

Ben-XL

Hey guys, I got a parking notice a while back and just got a reply from my appeal. I've followed the newbies guide to a T and now I'm kind of stuck. This is the reply I got...

"Thank you for your letter of appeal against the Parking Charge Notice issued under the terms of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

Unfortunately, we are unable to process your appeal as you were not the driver of the vehicle at the time of the PCN being issued, as per the above Legislation. Could we please kindly request the driver to appeal against the Parking Charge Notice if they wish to, so that we can process an appeal, as we actively seek to process all valid appeals.

Please note if you are unable or unwilling to provide the driver’s details and the parking charge has not been paid in full and we do not know both the name and current address of the driver, we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from you. This Notice is given to you under Paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and is subject to our complying with the applicable conditions under Schedule 4 of that Act.

Should you provide an incorrect address for service, we may pursue you for any Parking Charge amount that remains unpaid.

Should you identify someone, who denies they were the driver, we may pursue you for any Parking Charge amount that remains unpaid.

Could you please get back to us within 7 days from the above date, failure to do so will result in the PCN being passed to a Debt Collections Agent after 28 days from the date of issue, where further charges will be added."

If anybody could help me out that would be amazing!
Thanks

Redx

name of parking company ??

pappa_golf

Ben-XL

Its "Parking Ticketing Ltd"

parkingticketing.co.uk

Thanks

Redx

complain about this breach to the BPA (aos at the BPA etc) by email enclosing copies of all paperwork

Umkomaas

I’m sure PTL have been trying this stunt for a while. From memory complaints have previously been made to the BPA - so add another one to the pile and maybe the BPA will do something about this misapplication of the rules of their Code of Practice.

Here’s one from earlier in the year - not exactly the same, but an example of how they manipulate the rules.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5651546

Ben-XL

Thanks for the quick replies guys. Very much appreciated!

I will post here again if/when I have any updates.
Cheers! :beer:

Ben-XL

Hello again guys,

I submitted my complaint to the BPA like you all suggested (Thanks again by the way) and I received a response soon after which was as follows...

Thank you for your e-mail.
I am sorry to hear you are experiencing problems with one of our Members.
I can confirm I have logged your complaint under reference BPA – xxxx and will investigate the matter with the Operator. Once I receive a response I will be in touch.

Kind regards,

The next day I received this....

I have investigated your complaint with the Operator and can advise as follows.
As you did not identify yourself or another person as the driver in your appeal, the Operator does have the right to ask who the driver was. However, having said that, they should also respond to your appeal. I have advised the Operator of this and a response to your appeal will be sent shortly. If the appeal is rejected you will be provided with details on how to appeal to POPLA – the independent appeals service.
In view of the corrective action taken by the Operator I have closed the investigation. Please let us know if you do not receive a response regarding your appeal.

Kind regards,

Which prompted Parking Ticketing LTD to finally give me a POPLA code and this response...

Dear Sir/Madam, PCN Ref: 00xxxxx Registration: Dxxxxx POPLA Code: 5xxxxx

Thank you for your letter of appeal against the Parking Charge Notice issued under the terms of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

There are Warning Signs situated on the site that state; Warning, Private Property, vehicles parked in this area must park within a correct marked bay and clearly display a valid PTL authorized permit in the windscreen. Failure to comply will result in the vehicle being issued with a Parking Charge Notice without any notice given. Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you and the Warden we have decided to reject your appeal for the reason below.

As you have not supplied the drivers details after our request. We can only assume you have taken responsibility for the PCN.

As the vehicle was not parked within a correct marked bay, displaying a valid PTL permit in the windscreen, (having checked photographs of when the vehicle was issued with the PCN), you can view the photographic evidence yourself online at LINK ) as clearly stated on the warning signs, the vehicle was issued with a Parking Charge Notice.

We have considered your reason for appeal but unfortunately the warden must see the permit clearly displayed in the windscreen and the vehicle parked within a correct marked bay on the particular day when inspecting. We appreciate you are a holder of a permit and we kindly suggest you obtain a plastic holder to place in the windscreen.

We are sorry but we won’t be accepting your appeal on this occasion as the warden acted accordingly to the signage at the location.

We are not able to consider mitigating circumstances. That an appellant feels he or she had good reason for breaching the terms of parking is not a reason for which we can allow an appeal. When parking on private land, a motorist freely enters into an agreement to abide by the conditions of parking in return for permission to park. It is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure that he or she abides by any clearly displayed conditions of parking that are clearly displayed on the signs.

Supreme Court of the United Kingdom – Landmark court decision
On the 4th November 2015, a landmark judgement was handed down in favour of a parking operator who took a motorist to court for non-payment of a parking charge. Further details on the case can be found here - LINK ). This case was an important “test case” due to the complex legal arguments used by both sides. Therefore, falls outside “The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999” and falls also outside Genuine Pre-Estimate of Loss.

The responsibility to observe and obey parking restrictions is yours and as we operated correctly in this
Instance due to the vehicle being incorrectly parked we will not be accepting your appeal, on this occasion.

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure.

Due to above you appeal is refused, you now have the following options:

1 Pay the PCN at the prevailing price of £60 within 14 days of above date. Please note that after this time the discounted rate will no longer apply and the Parking Charge Notice will rise to £100.

2 Make an appeal to POPLA-Independent Appeals Service within 28 days by visiting LINK and completing the appeal form online quoting POPLA appeal reference xxxxxx. If you prefer to complete your appeal in writing please contact Parking Ticketing Ltd on 0845 689 45 45 to request the POPLA appeal forms.

3 Please be advised that if you opt for independent arbitration of your case, the ability to pay the parking charge at the reduced rate of £60 will be at an end, the full charge of £100.00 will be payable should your appeal be unsuccessful. If you opt to pay the parking charge you will be unable to appeal to POPLA. Please visit LINK to view other motorists appeals to POPLA against ourselves, that were refused for various appeal reasons, meaning the discounted rate of £60 no longer applied and the PCN was at the original full cost of £100.

4 If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures which will lead to costs being added to the original charge of £100 and we may proceed with Court action against you. Please visit LINK to view County Court Judgments where we have been successful in obtaining judgment for non-payment of the PCN costing the defendant at least 3 times the original amount of the original £60 PCN. We do not enter multiple appeals.

Yours sincerely
Appeals Dept.

So now I guess it's time to start writing my POPLA appeal. Does anyone know of any similar cases like mine which involve being in a work car park and their permit blowing onto the passenger seat? I was in the correct bay and I have a permit for that bay, my company owns it.

Also my boss received a ticket too, before me and ended up paying it because it wasn't worth his time. I'd still rather not do that :P

I have also yet to receive a NTK, it's been 37 days since I got the windscreen parking notice.
I'll keep following the newbie guide and searching this forum but any other advice from yourselves is highly appreciated.

Thanks guys

Fruitcake

Complain to the BPA and DVLA again, this time telling them that the scammers have given you a premium rate 'phone number to request a PoPLA form.

This is a specific breach of the BPA CoP 18.7:

(You need to double check this is still the case)

''If you provide a telephone line to respond to complaints, challenges and appeals from motorists relating to the terms and conditions of parking they have entered into, these calls must not be charged above the basic rate.''

For the avoidance of doubt, any number starting 070, 084, 087 or 09 is clearly 'premium rate'.

A 'basic rate' number is one starting 01, 02, 03 or 080.

Also, the 0845 number breaches Regulation 41 of the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013. These regulations came from BIS, not Ofcom, and took effect on 13 June 2014. This can be reported to Trading Standards (via the Citizen's Advice national Consumer Helpline on 0345 404 0506).

The omission of call costs from the sign also breaches Ofcom regulations that took effect 1 July 2015.


For your PoPLA appeal, use as many of the template appeal points that are relevant from the NEWBIES thread. If you can get to or very close to day 56 before the PoPLA deadline, then your winning appeal point will be "no NTK." Post your draft here before submitting it.

KeithP

Not only may premium rate numbers be against the BPA CoP, there is statutory legislation in place too.

Regulation 41 of The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 starts:

Help-line charges over basic rate

41. — (1) Where a trader operates a telephone line for the purpose of consumers contacting the trader by telephone in relation to contracts entered into with the trader, a consumer contacting the trader must not be bound to pay more than the basic rate.

Coupon-mad

Definitely worth a further complaint about that premium rate number!

Meanwhile, you will now win at POPLA, by waiting to submit the POPLA appeal, if you can (bear in mind the code only lasts about 30 days), until you get past day 56 from the date of event.

If they fail to send a NTK in that time (see NEWBIES thread post #3) then you win at POPLA.