How to get treatment?

thepurplepixie

POPPYOSCAR wrote: »

No life saving treatment is not always available on the NHS and we are not talking about an emergency.

Many drugs and operations are denied to some and they have to pay for their drugs. People have had to sell their houses to fund life saving treatment.

They also have to go abroad sometimes and pay for treatment that the NHS just will not do here.

None of those things are what we were talking about. If the drugs or operations aren't allowed on the NHS then paying to see a Consultant privately isn't going to let you jump an NHS queue because there won't be a NHS queue to jump. The same with going abroad to pay for treatment, you aren't jumping the queue.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I am in no way saying people shouldn't pay for private treatment if you want to and are able to pay thousands of pounds for a private operation or procedure or med because you want it faster or it isn't available then I applaud you. If you want to pay £150 so you can be jumped up an NHS queue for treatment you don't have to pay for then I don't think that is reasonable for the people who have to wait.

seven-day-weekend

Just to point out that my husband is going privately for his follow-up procedure following his private consultation.

This will be paid for by him, with or without assistance from Beneden Health (which he/we has also paid for).

thepurplepixie

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Just to point out that my husband is going privately for his follow-up procedure following his private consultation.

This will be paid for by him, with or without assistance from Beneden Health (which he/we has also paid for).

Yes I know you already said that and that is an entirely reasonable thing to do. If he was offered the chance to jump the queue when he saw the Consultant then I think it is very honourable for him to choose to follow through with the private treatment. I don't remember if you said he had that option but :T for him if that was on offer and he didn't go that route.

seven-day-weekend

thepurplepixie wrote: »

Yes I know you already said that and that is an entirely reasonable thing to do. If he was offered the chance to jump the queue when he saw the Consultant then I think it is very honourable for him to choose to follow through with the private treatment. I don't remember if you said he had that option but :T for him if that was on offer and he didn't go that route.

The Consultant offered him NHS treatment, and in fact we have to wait for a date for the NHS appointment before Benenden will help. But even if they can't/won't help, he has still decided to go privately.

It is not an operation, it is a procedure to see whether he has a hiatus hernia and will cost £190.

thepurplepixie

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

The Consultant offered him NHS treatment, and in fact we have to wait for a date for the NHS appointment before Benenden will help. But even if they can't/won't help, he has still decided to go privately.

It is not an operation, it is a procedure to see whether he has a hiatus hernia and will cost £190.

Well I won't begrudge him a :T because it is a procedure rather than an operation. I think he deserves applause as an honourable man. All credit to him.

We paid slightly more this summer for my daughter to have a scan, it was basically something doctor wanted her to have done for reassurance as doctor was pretty sure what the situation was. The scan showed what the GP thought it would. She had the scan done in a week rather than wait for months but no one in the NHS missed out on anything because she had it done and if the results had been different it wouldn't have involved her pushing ahead of anyone as it would have been dealt with by a medication her GP could have prescribed. Wouldn't have been great as it would have been lifetime on med but it didn't come to that.

seven-day-weekend

thepurplepixie wrote: »

Well I won't begrudge him a :T because it is a procedure rather than an operation. I think he deserves applause as an honourable man. All credit to him.

We paid slightly more this summer for my daughter to have a scan, it was basically something doctor wanted her to have done for reassurance as doctor was pretty sure what the situation was. The scan showed what the GP thought it would. She had the scan done in a week rather than wait for months but no one in the NHS missed out on anything because she had it done and if the results had been different it wouldn't have involved her pushing ahead of anyone as it would have been dealt with by a medication her GP could have prescribed. Wouldn't have been great as it would have been lifetime on med but it didn't come to that.

What if the scan had shown she had needed an operation and would have to wait a year on the NHS?

lessonlearned

thepurplepixie wrote: »

In all things charity? You can spare them a fleeting thought, how kind of you.

How about your grandchild is ill, in pain, needs surgery but not an emergency and you see me pushing in the queue because I have £150 to wave under the Consultant's nose? You still happy with the system?

It is my experience, with both myself and several of my relatives, that a consultant will not push you up to the top of nhs queue if the condition is non urgent. They will however speed things up if your condition is urgent or there is a real clinical need for speedy intervention.

The problem appears to lie not with the consultants or the hospitals willingness to treat but either with GPS who are delaying that initial referral or with long wait times to see a consultant.

In my husbands case a private referral to the neurologist was a 3 week wait, the nhs appt with the same neurologist was 11 weeks.

We saw the neurologist in the evening.....after the neurologist had treated his NHS patients during the day. This is common practice so no one is stealing the consultants time away from NHS patients, rather it is the consultant electing to work longer hours.

My husband was admitted to hospital to an nhs hospital the very next day. If he had had to wait 11 weeks for his NHS appt he would have died during the interim period. Absolutely no question.

Similar to my what happened my FIL.

Had either of these outcomes been non urgent then both my husband and FIL would have been put on the normal nhs wait list or, if they had wanted to speed things up for a non urgent condition, then they could have paid for treatment.

If their conditions had been non urgent then they would not have gone to the top of the nhs wait list or been given preferential treatment. This was fully explained to us when we made the initial appointments.

In my own case, both times when I have elected to pay for a private consultation my conditions have been regarded as non urgent. However, they were jolly uncomfortable and were having a significant impact on my life so I elected to pay for private treatment.

As I said earlier when someone goes to the top of the nhs wait list it is because the consultant has based their decision on clinical need. They just want to practise medicine, they are not concerned with the underlying politics. To them a patient in need is a patient in need.

(This is not to say that consultants are non political. Many are politically active and are vigourous campaigners. It’s just that they don’t let their politics interfere with their job, they make their decisions on the medical criteria that is presented to them).

Yes I take your point that paying for a private consultation gives a patient an opportunity to see the consultant more quickly but it does not necessarily follow that that patient will then receive treatment sooner than an nhs patient.

The issue seems to be not that consultants are allowing people to queue jump.....they don’t..... but that

A. some GPS appear to be delaying referrals
B. NHS lead times are too long

seven-day-weekend

My husband's private consultation was also in the evening , LL, so no time taken away from the consultant's NHS commitments.

thepurplepixie

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

What if the scan had shown she had needed an operation and would have to wait a year on the NHS?

It wasn't a condition that could be treated with surgery so wasn't a consideration. I did almost pay for private surgery for another of DD. She had a painful and debilitating condition and waiting list for Consultant appointment was long as was the next queue for surgery. I arranged with Consultant's secretary for an appointment in uni holidays and she was penciled in for surgery the next week, Consultant was happy to do that as he had seen notes. So we were paying just over £3,000 for appointment and surgery. Circumstances overtook us with an emergency hospital admission so she was seen by NHS Consultant in uni city and immediately booked in for surgery. The surgery took place a week later than private one had been arranged for so a one week wait and we saved £3,000. If the emergency had arisen I would have paid the £3,000 gladly. As I have repeatedly said I have no problem with private medicine, just queue jumping.

thepurplepixie

lessonlearned wrote: »

It is my experience, with both myself and several of my relatives, that a consultant will not push you up to the top of nhs queue if the condition is non urgent. They will however speed things up if your condition is urgent or there is a real clinical need for speedy intervention.

The problem appears to lie not with the consultants or the hospitals willingness to treat but either with GPS who are delaying that initial referral or with long wait times to see a consultant.

In my husbands case a private referral to the neurologist was a 3 week wait, the nhs appt with the same neurologist was 11 weeks.

We saw the neurologist in the evening.....after the neurologist had treated his NHS patients during the day. This is common practice so no one is stealing the consultants time away from NHS patients, rather it is the consultant electing to work longer hours.

My husband was admitted to hospital to an nhs hospital the very next day. If he had had to wait 11 weeks for his NHS appt he would have died during the interim period. Absolutely no question.

Similar to my what happened my FIL.

Had either of these outcomes been non urgent then both my husband and FIL would have been put on the normal nhs wait list or, if they had wanted to speed things up for a non urgent condition, then they could have paid for treatment.

If their conditions had been non urgent then they would not have gone to the top of the nhs wait list or been given preferential treatment. This was fully explained to us when we made the initial appointments.

In my own case, both times when I have elected to pay for a private consultation my conditions have been regarded as non urgent. However, they were jolly uncomfortable and were having a significant impact on my life so I elected to pay for private treatment.

As I said earlier when someone goes to the top of the nhs wait list it is because the consultant has based their decision on clinical need. They just want to practise medicine, they are not concerned with the underlying politics. To them a patient in need is a patient in need.

(This is not to say that consultants are non political. Many are politically active and are vigourous campaigners. It’s just that they don’t let their politics interfere with their job, they make their decisions on the medical criteria that is presented to them).

Yes I take your point that paying for a private consultation gives a patient an opportunity to see the consultant more quickly but it does not necessarily follow that that patient will then receive treatment sooner than an nhs patient.

The issue seems to be not that consultants are allowing people to queue jump.....they don’t..... but that

A. some GPS appear to be delaying referrals
B. NHS lead times are too long

I never said they would be pushed to the head of the queue. I'm not sure if I can't explain this, if people can't understand or don't want to understand.

Let me give you a real example. I saw my GP about something 8 months ago, I was referred to an NHS Consultant, I was seen last week. I need treatment, who knows how long, but let us say it is 8 weeks. Now my total waiting time is 10 months. If I had paid to see the Consultant privately say a week after I saw the GP my total waiting time would have been 9 weeks. I am now in an eight week queue and probably/possibly some of the people in front of me saw the Consultant privately so by seeing him privately they avoided the 8 month wait and they don't have to go behind me and all the other people who are in the 8 week queue. Can you see that by paying their £100 or whatever they had leapfrogged over me and all the other people who waited? The only advantage is they didn't see the Consultant in clinic, in my case about 30 seconds, one look and he agreed I needed the treatment.

Fine if you want reassurance but don't push in because other people are being delayed if you have paid to get in front of them.