solar panels, windturbines, energy efficient boilers and cavity wall insulation

jakesbikes

I'm looking for a good solar water heating supplier. Has anyone used Organic Energy? www.organicenergysolar.co.uk. If so, I'd be interested to hear your experiences.

penrhyn

If I was going for a solar panel, which I'm not, I think I'd consider the Solartwin product.
Won't save you money but it does have an elegant simplicity about it.

cazrobinson

what about solar-to-electric options?

has anyone heard any details about the new gov. direction on fuel security?

penrhyn

As far as I'm aware they will be going for a new generation of nuclear power stations built with private investment (French?), supported by an increased use of renewables.

Cardew

cazrobinson wrote: »

what about solar-to-electric options?

Solar electric panels are still hugely expensive and their output not high enough, or(in UK) dependable enough.

There is some thought that with new technology, and China starting to manufacture them, they will become a better proposition in a few years.

However they will first need to be cost-effective in places like Arizona to run Air Conditioning, before they have a future here.

yakky58

I read with a smile the discussion over the solar energy debate.

From someone with both solar Hot Water and Solar Electricity installed for more than 2 years. So I can quote with some experience.

Cost to install both. £10,200.

Savings year one around £375, split roughly £275 on electricity and £100 on DHW.

Savings year two yet to calculated but probably a bit more. Not much though maybe around £400 for the year.

I have signed up with Southern Electric and they pay me the same price for electricity exported as they charge me for those inducted. Simply I send them an email of export figures every three months they deduct that off the inducted I pay the difference.

I am also registered with Ofgem and report my figures to them monthly via the web. A five minute job. So far I have had 4 ROCs at around £50.00/ROC is additional benefit.

As to Cardew saying that you have to clean them. That's true best in March and October. Takes maybe 15-20 minutes with a hose and brush and is no big deal.

To date I have generated 5112 khW so 5.1 Megawatts in two years + 2 months. Exported 2971 khW so nearly 3 Megawatts. I worked out over the two years I got around 40% of my electricity off my panels. For reference I have 10x 205w Sanyo panels so max generation 2050watts. As an example today I got 11kwH in the day.

Less impressed with Hot water yes it works and over the year the savings are very low. Today the tank heated without gas and I'll shower before work tomorrow for free. In the winter its not so good.

To be honest I am real glad I did it. I much more energy aware now. I am looking at cerespower CHP boiler.

I am even looking at a wind turbine from Swift and more panels.

geordie_joe

yakky58 wrote: »

I read with a smile the discussion over the solar energy debate.

Well I for one am waiting with baited breathe for Cardew's response to this.

While I'm waiting I have some questions.

yakky58 wrote: »

Savings year two yet to calculated but probably a bit more. Not much though maybe around £400 for the year.

Below you say you have had this for 2 years + two months. Why, two months after the end of year two have you not calculated your savings? Personally that would be the first thing I would do at the end of year two.

yakky58 wrote: »

To date I have generated 5112 khW so 5.1 Megawatts in two years + 2 months. Exported 2971 khW so nearly 3 Megawatts. I worked out over the two years I got around 40% of my electricity off my panels.

See, you know how much electricity you have generated TO DATE, including the extra two months. You know how much you generated and how much you exported. You even calculated that over two years you generated 40% of your electricity from your panels.

Yet you haven't bothered to calculate how much you saved in year two?

If that was me it would be the first calculation made. I certainly wouldn't wait two months to make the calculation. Nor would I make a post as long as yours without knowing that figure.

Cardew

geordie_joe wrote: »

Well I for one am waiting with baited breathe for Cardew's response to this.

I have had considerable correspondence in threads with yakky58 over the past couple of years, and he is about the only person I have 'seen' on this forum who has solar systems and gives objective appraisals and figures. So I have absolutely no issues* with his input.

There are a couple of points to add to his post above.

Firstly he is something of a handyman and a solar enthusiast and did much of the preparation himself - so a figure of £10,200 is not a representative cost for his impressive systems. I would hazard a guess that in 2008 it would be considerably more than that figure.

He has freely admitted that his installation does not make economic sense; as even investing a low £10,200 for a £400pa return illustrates.

More interesting is the comment in his post above that the savings for Hot Water are very low. After all this is what most people mean by solar systems.

* The exception would be on cleaning the panels;) Last year it took him a "2 hour scramble on the roof to clean them" - this year 15-20 mins with a brush!!

This might seem a trivial point in the grand scheme of things, but to get up on the roof twice a year with a brush to clean panels of grime and bird droppings is a big deal for many people - and round here would cost most of your annual savings to pay someone to do it for you.

There is nothing in yakky's input that conflicts with my stance!

geordie_joe

Cardew wrote: »

I have had considerable correspondence in threads with yakky58 over the past couple of years, and he is about the only person I have 'seen' on this forum who has solar systems and gives objective appraisals and figures. So I have absolutely no issues* with his input.

Most of post cut.....

Cardew wrote: »

There is nothing in yakky's input that conflicts with my stance!

Thanks Cardew, that is good enough for me. But have to admit that I thought you would provide calculations to prove, or disprove the claims. Poor me can't calculate how much you would make from pumping "nearly 3 Megawatts" into the national grid, so I can't work out if it is worth it.

I know he, or she generated 40% of their own electricity and "sold" nearly 3 Megawatts" to the power company, but I can't work out if it would be worth me doing. I haven't got a clue how much you would get for selling nearly 3 Megawatts.

Sorry to sound thick, but I'm just a money saver and want to know if yakky saved some money or just got a warm feeling from generating his own electricity by spend some money and putting some effort into it.

yakky58

Sorry I haven't put up the figures but I have been away wandering around the outback in Australia for a couple of months and calculating the figures was been way down on my list of To Do's since I have been back.

I am a HE just so you all know

I have reduced my cleaning time by using a ladder with a standoff and a hose attached to a brush. Considerable quicker than standing on the roof like past time. The standoff cost me £25.00 but was worth is as makes cleaning the panels and gutters much easier and less dangerous.

To work out the savings is easy take the number of kilowatts exported, and I checked this am 2993 and * it by the cost you pay for a KwH so lets say thay are 10p for ease of calculation. That's £299.30 pounds. Now take the overall generation at 5112 at the same cost is £511.20 saved by my own generation. The extra savings each year has come from the swapping of incandescant bulbs to low energy and switching off everything that is not used like my kids PC's left on over night. Hence it the last two years total KwH burned has dropped from 6.5MW to around 5MW over the past two years. I have been more impressed by the savings in switching off things.

Cardew is right that savings are small but over the long term I will make some benefit. Enough to cover my costs? Well maybe in 20-25 years which is how long the panels should last.

I am not an evangalist on the subject just someone who is interested in an alternative power source to the utilities. I guess it is my way of securing my own supply of power. Plus I hate seeing Utilities make billions and claim they are ehancing the network and making efficiencies...its never reflected in the price to the consumer is it? I wonder how shareholders see it. Don't get me going on this .....

The ROC money is extra bunce given away. The main objective has been to see how wasteful I was prior to installing. Also in the industry I work in I forsaw some years ago that anything 'green' represents a new form and area for taxation for the government. If David Cameron is to be believed he will use smart meters to charge extra taxes on wasteful housholds. Going to Australia I was charged £300 fuel tax .... think about and then about paying per mile in your car. Its coming....beware.

Last point is the prices do go up by 40% then my savings do increase. If anyone is interested I'll try over the next two weeks to compare the bills and post them up.

Hope this answers some of your questions.