Luton Council Tax Attack on OAP's! Need your help!

gwizard98

Hi MSE Community,
Desperately need your help on this one.

So my parents are both pensioners, ~80 years old. They've worked hard all thier lives as blue collar, low income workers and my mother still currently works part-time just so they can both keep their head above the water.

Both receive state pension, my dad receives an additional private pension and my mother receives additional income from part time work. Between them their gross income before tax is less than 26K.

Last month the council stated that because of my dad's second pension he would not be eligible for council tax reduction and that they would be stopping it. They stated that should he wish to appeal it, that he should provide supporting documentation for the pension amount received on said years.

He stated he could not provide all the documentation as he was no longer in receipt of it. They then sent a representative who was specifically interested in my Dad's pension income for as far back as was possible. He was able to provide this, they wrote the information down and then left.

A few days later the council wrote my parents stating that they owed around £6000 in back-dated council reduction discount as they were not eligible to receive it between the dates 2013 - 2017. And that actually the amount would have been even higher but a portion was not recoverable as it was a council tax benefit and not a reduction, an error on their behalf they stated.

No reasoning, or calculations were provided.

To say we feel duped, tricked, manipulated by the council, is an absolute understatement. I feel gutted and should have known better.

To me this is just the council trying to claw money from any and everywhere to make up for their budget deficits.

Emotions aside.....

I can appeal this, but on what grounds should I appeal it on.
The way information was obtained?
Income?
No calculations being provided?
Is there any way I can find out what the threshold is for council tax reduction, it's not widely publicised?

00ec25

gwizard98 wrote: »

Both receive state pension, my dad receives an additional private pension and my mother receives additional income from part time work. Between them their gross income before tax is less than 26K.

Last month the council stated that because of my dad's second pension he would not be eligible for council tax reduction and that they would be stopping it.
.....
Is there any way I can find out what the threshold is for council tax reduction, it's not widely publicised?

in what way are you unable to use google? The info is readily available by the most basic of searches given you know it is Luton council...
http://www.luton.gov.uk/Benefits/Council-tax-reduction/Pages/What-is-Council-Tax-Reduction.aspx

council tax reduction is a means tested benefit so without redoing your parents calculation in detail no one can confirm if they have a case for an appeal. The above page has a link to Luton CTR policy and in that policy you will find the exact details of thresholds and formulae as to how it is worked out. You need to do the calculation yourself otherwise I doubt you'll believe the result.

26K gross does not strike me as a "low" income given the Office of National Statistics says the median household income of all retired persons for 2015/16 was £21,500 (post tax). That alone suggests your parents are far from qualifying for means tested benefits in full.

had you googled council tax reduction you would have found this:
http://www.ageuk.org.uk/money-matters/claiming-benefits/council-tax-benefit/

"You may be eligible for Council Tax Support (sometimes called Council Tax Reduction) if you're on a low income or claim certain benefits.

Council Tax Support replaced Council Tax Benefit in 2013. Each local authority now runs their own Council Tax Support schemes so there may be differences across the country in eligibility and the amounts of support given. Apply directly to your local council to see if you're entitled to support."

if you then read the rules on Luton council's website you can check the calculation yourself.:
http://www.luton.gov.uk/Benefits/Council-tax-reduction/Pages/default.aspx

However, your parents are entitled to ask for details of the calculation. Have you read the Luton website yourself to find out how to do such a request? The info is readily available on the council website if you look for it.
http://www.luton.gov.uk/Benefits/Council-tax-reduction/recalculating-backdating-council-tax-reduction/Pages/default.aspx

xylophone

http://www.luton.gov.uk/Benefits/Council-tax-reduction/Pages/What-is-Council-Tax-Reduction.aspx

Council Tax Reduction is worked out based on:
your age
your circumstances (eg number of children, residency status, other adults living with you)
the money you have coming in - this includes benefits, savings, pensions and all household income
the amount of council tax you have to pay

Council tax reduction is means tested - had your parents under declared their income and savings?

antrobus

According to the CAB, if you’re a pensioner but you don’t get Pension Credit, the local authority will calculate your income and compare it the applicable amount. If your income is more than this applicable amount, you might still get some CTR, depending on the level of income.

The applicable amount for a pensioner couple over 65 is £258.15 a week or £13k a year. The disability premium might or might not be relevant.

But the basic state pension is £122.30 a week. So a couple with a BSP each would be under the limit. A couple with 2 BSPs and another £13k worth of income would be over the limit. And likely qualify for nowt.

It looks as if someone has applied for CTR and failed to declare this private pension. Technically that might be considered as fraud.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/help-if-on-a-low-income/help-with-your-council-tax-council-tax-reduction/how-your-council-tax-reduction-is-worked-out/council-tax-reduction-how-is-it-worked-out/

Robin9

How much is your fathers private pension ?

Keep_pedalling

Sorry for the lack of sympathy but this sounds more like an attack on benefit fraud. On that level of income, and I would image significant associated savings, there is no way they are entitled to means tested benefits in any form.

Being 80+ does not give you a free pass on claiming what you are not entitled to, and your father's claim not to have any records of income going back that far are tosh, he knows how much pension he is receiving and will have access to bank statements going back to 2013.

The best that thing they can do is pay back what the owe, and move on.

CIS

Providing the Local Authority re-assessed the charge correctly, based on the new information, then they've done nothing wrong and have complied with the legal duty they have (which makes no difference based on age etc).

A duplicate copy of the full calculation can easily be provided on request if they're asked - I'd be very surprised if they've failed in their legal duty to post out an amended award notice anyway.

le_loup

gwizard98 wrote: »

To say we feel duped, tricked, manipulated by the council, is an absolute understatement. I feel gutted and should have known better.

If you really want help, it's best to stay calm and not rant until you have found the truth. Then, if you are right, steam about it.
Incidentally, not all 80 year olds are demented and most people work hard all their lives.

gwizard98

Woo Woo Woo.

I think people have got the wrong end of the stick here.

Firstly - The council have admitted this is a mistake on thier behalf. They actually had all of this information in the first place and wanted to re-confirm it. It actually states that on the letter.

My parents wouldn't even know how to apply for council tax discount or benifit. The fact is they were offered it when they retired as they were well retired. We're going back 15 years plus here.

So how is correct to offer someone something then expect it back in a lump sum after a number of years. This is the same as offering someone a loan that they don't know about and then expecting it back with interest a number of years later?

So my issue is not necessarily with whether they are or are not entitled to the discount it is the way in which an entity, in this case the council can offer something without them fully knowing or understanding the implications and then expecting something back despite the fact to them not knowing what exactlty they signed up to (if they ever signed up to anything) in the first place.

Secondly - On what planet is 26K high income between two people, and especially enough to have 'significant savings'?? I'm not sure you live in the UK.

Anyways, those that provided useful information, genuinely thanks very much, I'll look into it. And for those that just wanted to rant themselves, all I can say is one day you'll be old too.

xylophone

The fact is they were offered it when they retired as they were well retired.

How did this happen?

I don't know about Luton but my council would not automatically offer CT reduction to people just because they were retired.

How would the council know that residents had retired?

And many retired people would have too much income to qualify for means tested benefits.

00ec25

gwizard98 wrote: »

Anyways, those that provided useful information, genuinely thanks very much, I'll look into it. And for those that just wanted to rant themselves, all I can say is one day you'll be old too.

so your rant is that your parents "accepted" a CT reduction 15 years ago having just (?) retired at an age when they were certainly still able to think for themselves and had until then been paying full council tax, but they could not be bothered to try and understand what they were getting, why they were getting it, and question should they be getting it. And now, in keeping with current trends in society, you think someone else is to blame for their own failure.