Beware the pitfalls

Danny&Kit

I am not sure I can name the companies involved but this is a word of warning of how you could lose your home on an unsecured loan. My wife and I are currently retiired, we are living off savings just now and are awaiting a lump sum at the end of August. Before we move abroad to stay we decided to do various jods to the house,firstly Penicuik double glazing, I don't want to go into much details but sufficed to say everthing that came out of the salesman mouth was a lie. Despite telling him we have no income and want to put down 10% and pay the rest when the lump sum is through he told us it is 50% deposit (another lie) he filled in the loan papers with lies and Shawbrook Bank without any investigation gave the £10700 to people that cannot afford to pay. I was puzzled so I looked into why they would do this, it turns out that an unsecured loan if defaulted on can by way of a charging order be secured on your home giving the bank a share in your property and they can even force you to sell after adding years of interest at 18.3%. After contacting the bank by letter and email with my concerns they have not replied I have since referred them to the Financial Conduct Authority. So please everyone be aware if you own your home there is NO SUCH THING AS AN UNSECURED LOAN.

StopIt

Yes, any large debt can be secured against your property via a charging order, this isn't exactly unknown, especially on MSE.


To get a charging order you would have had to do the following.


1: Defaulted on your debts
2: Ignore the original creditor, and not inform them of financial hardship and/or getting a debt charity to help
3: Had the debts likely sold to a DCA
4: Ignore the DCA
5: Ignore the DCA passing the debt to a solicitor for actioning a County Court Claim
6: Ignoring the County Court Claim
7: Getting a Judgement by default
8: Ignoring demands for payment for the CCJ
9: Ignoring intention to place a charging order.


If you take any action before 8, you can avoid this. Charging orders are an action usually reserved for those who ignore their debts and own property.


The DFW boards are full of information that people can utilise to deal with debts, including when debt crises happen.

Danny&Kit

Thanks Stopit for your reply but I think the main point was that especially after the market crash and giving credit to people who cannot afford it nothing really has changed and irresponsible lending companies are at it once again. I might add that in our situation we are fortunate enough to afford it but there are many people who are struggling with debts they should not have acquired in the first place.

StopIt

Danny&Kit wrote: »

Thanks Stopit for your reply but I think the main point was that especially after the market crash and giving credit to people who cannot afford it nothing really has changed and irresponsible lending companies are at it once again. I might add that in our situation we are fortunate enough to afford it but there are many people who are struggling with debts they should not have acquired in the first place.

That's a totally separate argument.


Your OP stated that there's no such thing as unsecured debts because of the courts ability to impose charging orders. That isn't new.


Irresponsible lending isn't new either and if you have a complaint about how you were treated, you should indeed complain to the FOS or FCA after exhausting any complaints procedures with the lender in question.

Shashy

Danny&Kit wrote: »

Despite telling him we have no income and want to put down 10% and pay the rest when the lump sum is through he told us it is 50% deposit (another lie) he filled in the loan papers with lies and Shawbrook Bank without any investigation gave the £10700 to people that cannot afford to pay.

Errrrrrmmm..... why did you sign it?

EssexHebridean

Shashy has got there ahead of me - you signed the agreement? Knowing it was giving incorrect information?

While there are indeed irresponsible lenders out there, there are also irresponsible borrowers...

Danny&Kit

We signed because we could pay but the point is lies were filled in by the salesman and no checks were made by the bank ie. proof of earnings,just asking us to email proof to back up the figures filled in would have I assume stopped the loan how difficult would that have been.

StopIt

Danny&Kit wrote: »

We signed because we could pay but the point is lies were filled in by the salesman and no checks were made by the bank ie. proof of earnings,just asking us to email proof to back up the figures filled in would have I assume stopped the loan how difficult would that have been.

Because you signed a declaration stating that the items on the form were correct.


Without any suspicion that you were lying, there's no need for extra checks. If they had, and stopped the loan due to fraudulent information, you'd be looking at a CIFAS marker and of course, would have to fund the work in a different way.


You're admitting to committing fraud here, and yes, despite the fact you didn't write the fraudulent material, you signed it, meaning that you take responsibility for what was written.

EssexHebridean

Danny&Kit wrote: »

I am not sure I can name the companies involved but this is a word of warning of how you could lose your home on an unsecured loan. My wife and I are currently retiired, we are living off savings just now and are awaiting a lump sum at the end of August. Before we move abroad to stay we decided to do various jods to the house,firstly Penicuik double glazing, I don't want to go into much details but sufficed to say everthing that came out of the salesman mouth was a lie. Despite telling him we have no income and want to put down 10% and pay the rest when the lump sum is through he told us it is 50% deposit (another lie) he filled in the loan papers with lies and Shawbrook Bank without any investigation gave the £10700 to people that cannot afford to pay. I was puzzled so I looked into why they would do this, it turns out that an unsecured loan if defaulted on can by way of a charging order be secured on your home giving the bank a share in your property and they can even force you to sell after adding years of interest at 18.3%. After contacting the bank by letter and email with my concerns they have not replied I have since referred them to the Financial Conduct Authority. So please everyone be aware if you own your home there is NO SUCH THING AS AN UNSECURED LOAN.

Danny&Kit wrote: »

We signed because we could pay but the point is lies were filled in by the salesman and no checks were made by the bank ie. proof of earnings,just asking us to email proof to back up the figures filled in would have I assume stopped the loan how difficult would that have been.

Well either you could pay, in which case why the need for the lies, or you couldn't, in which case you should never have entered into the agreement. In any event you should certainly NOT have signed an agreement that you knew was based on fraudulent figures! Put bluntly, what on earth were you thinking?

StopIt wrote: »

Because you signed a declaration stating that the items on the form were correct.

Without any suspicion that you were lying, there's no need for extra checks. If they had, and stopped the loan due to fraudulent information, you'd be looking at a CIFAS marker and of course, would have to fund the work in a different way.

You're admitting to committing fraud here, and yes, despite the fact you didn't write the fraudulent material, you signed it, meaning that you take responsibility for what was written.

Yes - as is often the case StopIt sums this up well.

By agreeing to borrow money using incorrect financial information on your application, you are ever bit as guilty as the lender, if not more so, I'm afraid.

System

Why would anyone want to buy services from a company that has lied on the form, even if they are in a position to afford it? Lies at this point, more than certainly means lies later, warranty claims ignored, substandard workmanship, cut price dodgy materials...all stems from up top's morals...

Iwanttobefree

On a separate issue to anyone thinking of getting double glazing, the cost of the windows to make is very very little.

I am sick of them quoting over 10K for the average house, I know person after person who has gone with these quotes.

A few years ago I had one of the two best known firms come round and give me a quote, they quoted me 13k for 9 windows.

I told them they are having a laugh. They asked what I would be prepared to pay, I said 3K.

They then went through a charade I have witnessed before in the past, where they phone their manager, then tell me they have people laid up due to a job falling through and due to that, they can do it at the special price of £3200. But I would have to sign there and then.

So from £13,000 to £3,200 in 5 minutes.

I told them no and to leave. The following day I phoned up their main competitor, told them that I had got them down to £3k, I didn't want someone coming around giving me !!!!!!!!, are they prepared to match that price, and they jumped to it.

I spoke to a couple of friends about this, one an accountant for a smaller but reasonably big windows firm, the other someone who has worked in the building industry for years.

The friend who was an accountant, said the markup is criminal, they buy the stuff for pence. The friend in the building trade said I could have got them down much further and he would never pay more than £150 to £200 per window fitted.