Reference

Malthusian

If you were dismissed for gross misconduct you would expect the reference to be negative.

Gross misconduct is by definition something that is bad enough to merit instant dismissal no matter how good you were previously at your job and for how long.

Did you do it?

Undervalued

NineDeuce wrote: »

Yes, but as far as I know, it isnt legal to make opinionated statements such as 'he was a rubbish worker'.

As long as that is their honest opinion they are perfectly entitled to say it.

Your misunderstandings on this subject may well be based on some firm's internal rules about references. Some have policies restricting what staff are allowed to say and some will only confirm dates of employment.

Undervalued

Malthusian wrote: »

If you were dismissed for gross misconduct you would expect the reference to be negative.

Gross misconduct is by definition something that is bad enough to merit instant dismissal no matter how good you were previously at your job and for how long.

Did you do it?

That isn't particularly relevant to the reference situation. As it stands the OP was dismissed for what the firm considered to be gross misconduct so they are quite entitled to say so.

jobbingmusician

Depends on what the GM was though. Dipping into the till is rather different from making a genuine mistake which is deemed GM. In the latter case or similar, might be worth contacting the employer to see if they will clarify the nature of the GM.

[Deleted User]

If the job is quick turn around - offer to starting - you have less to worry about. There was a query as to whether my last employer would respond with any real details beyond confirming simply dates of employment so the employer said 'let's forget it', I've started and I worried that somehow it would come out I'd given notice during a holiday - turns out the new employer was on holiday themselves! I still don't like to ask if they did ever receive a reference even now after a link supplied by x employer to exit interview and leaving employee reviews.

You've been honest about it and that is to your absolute credit. They have heard it in your own words before they hear from ex employer, don't think you have much to fear.

Salemicus

I heard that they cant give you a bad reference as such, but can refuse a reference

No, as others have said, it's perfectly legal to give a bad reference.

But lots of firms don't, because it's legally risky. If you give a bad reference, the former employee could sue you for negligent misstatement (or even defamation), so you'd better make sure you can back up every negative claim about him. But if you give a good reference, then the new employer could sue you for negligent misstatement, because they never would have hired him if you'd been honest and admitted he was terrible. So you're caught between a rock and a hard place.

As a result, many employers will either (1) not give references for employees to whom they would have given a bad reference, or (2) give only factual references for everyone (i.e. he worked here for 10 years as a supervising technician, no comments on competence etc).

Geoff1963

I expect that the effect, will depend on how relevant the gross misconduct activity is, to the new employment. If the new employment is so different, that the activity would be impossible, then it is likely to matter less. For instance, if the new employment takes place in isolation ( dry-stone walling ) then any difficulty with people would be less of an issue.

aife

A lot of employers , particularly in the public sector now stick to 'Factual references' . Since they presumably followed their own procedures when dismissing you they will almost certainly mention this.
I assume you're worried about how much detail they will go into - when you discussed it with your new employers did you tell them the specifics or just that you were dismissed ? did they ask ? I would assume they discussed it amongst themselves and possibly made checks before offering the job so hopefully you'll be OK
You were at the previous firm a long time , is there anyone senior there you could contact that might be able to let you know what the reference is likely to say ?

sangie595

aife wrote: »

A lot of employers , particularly in the public sector now stick to 'Factual references' .

Do they? I know a awful lot of public sector employers, and not a single one provides or accepts a purely factual reference.

It is really not as hard as it is so often made out to be, to provide a reference. Actual cases of negligence misstatement are few and far between, and defamation is almost unheard of and certainly won't be happening unless someone had so much money (for the case deposit) that they don't actually need to work!

I must admit, though, that I am perplexed by the OPs concern. They have already fully shared the whole truth about their dismissal for gross misconduct, and still already been given a offer. What could that reference therefore say that would cause any concern? Unless, of course, the version that the OP shared is somewhat different from the former employers? neither being good at ones job, nor having been doing that job for a long time, means that someone didn't commit gross misconduct; and I am unconvinced by the argument that a new manager didn't like someone but never showed it for two years! So I would expect the potential employer to be asking, and requiring answers to, some searching questions about what they have been told. If the version that the OP has given accords with what they are told, I see nothing to worry about.

aife

I work for the NHS and my Trust informed us a while ago they were switching to Factual references and that anyone receiving a request for a reference should not complete it but forward it to HR
I had the impression this was quite widespread , but obviously I don't work everywhere