Suspension of sick pay

sangie595

TELLIT01 wrote: »

In the public sector that is not always an option, probably true of the private sector too. I know many people believe that Civil Servants have an easy life, but I can tell you from personal experience that is not true. I worked in the private sector most of my life and was never treated as badly as in the years I worked for DWP. Arbitrary decisions taken on high to increase workload to levels where it was impossible to do the job with any level of care or accuracy was the main problem. Some people, myself included, could adapt to the requirement of 'Get the work through and don't worry about accuracy' whilst others simply couldn't. One lady I worked with was off for a while with work related stress and she told me that she was physically sick as soon as she saw the building, when she attempted to return to work. She was an ex copper so not a person unused to stressful work.

This is certainly true these days. Once upon a time, relocating public sector staff (assuming a level of flexibility on the part of the employee) was not at all difficult. But it is many years now since local authorities (which are my main area) have held many vacancies. Certain jobs - largely social workers - they cannot fill quickly enough. But that's because the jobs really are stressful. Most jobs, there's no movement. Cuts have reduced headcount, there's no promotion prospects so nobody is going anywhere, and natural wastage had been largely cut out by offers of voluntary redundancy and early retirement to avoid compulsory redundancies. And the jobs that went still have to be done, so the remaining staff pick up the slack. And I'm afraid that means a more general intolerance of people who don't pull their weight. And by that I don't mean those who take the proverbial, who never got as much tolerance as most people thought. I mean those who are really "just average". Which ought to be enough. Used to be enough. And with the pressures on local authorities, no longer is.

I mean, the OP is damning with faint praise someone worse side they have taken! This person had their shortcomings (oh dear!), but they are hardworking and keen to please (even worse!). And this person hadn't "been put" in the wrong job - they have applied for it or been restructured into it, the latter being a euphemism for "we need to do more with less". Either way, not being suitable for the job was an option - but it would have been an option out the door.

Local authorities no longer have the luxury of moving people, so it is do the job, find your own way out, or be managed out. They don't design jobs for individuals, they design jobs for service delivery. Just like any other employer.


BTW - scary this, but I live nowhere near you! But there was a similar case of a police officer being sacked within the last several weeks here. Another sign of the times - police officers needed to rob the bank of England once to actually get sacked! If they got caught being naughty they got demoted or moved to a desk in the basement.

andygb

TELLIT01 wrote: »

One lady I worked with was off for a while with work related stress and she told me that she was physically sick as soon as she saw the building, when she attempted to return to work. She was an ex copper so not a person unused to stressful work.

A bit similar to my experience. Around eighteen years ago I was suffering from a medical condition which was yet to be diagnosed. I had been off with stress and was ready to make my return to work on the Monday. This was when I commuted to London (about 4 hours a day travelling), then caught the Circle Line to work. The first morning, I got off the tube a couple of hundred yards from work and couldn't face going in, so just walked around London for an entire day. The rest of the week, I spent doing laps of the Circle Line, just curled up in a corner seat for the day.
I finally went in to work on the following Monday, and the predictable happened, the bullying started, increasing the workload beyond what was realistic, constant phone calls telling me to check my emails.
On the Thursday, I just walked out at lunchtime, went home and contacted a local employment lawyer. I had kept emails and letters (on one day there were over 100 emails sent to me by various members of the team, each one demanding an immediate response).
In the end it worked out OK for me, because the lawyer was excellent and the documented evidence against my colleagues was indefensible.
All the while it was going on, I was a complete wreck.

LadyDee

The PC sacked a couple of weeks ago made the mistake of getting his photograph taken celebrating the win of a horse he part-owned. Checking back on his previous 'sick' days it was found that they just happened to coincide with other big race days where other horse(s) he part-owned were running!

Nual

The ex colleague was exonerated of all 6 charges at a formal disciplinary tribunal. He is back working at a lower grade post but very stressed and unhappy. Thousands of pounds have been wasted in pursuing these ridiculous accusations, not to mention the affect on his mental health. The standard of managers and HR is appalling.

Does he have any options regarding compensation for what he and I believe was a response to him whistleblowing about an impossible job and the negative effect on vulnerable people?

sangie595

Nual wrote: »

The ex colleague was exonerated of all 6 charges at a formal disciplinary tribunal. He is back working at a lower grade post but very stressed and unhappy. Thousands of pounds have been wasted in pursuing these ridiculous accusations, not to mention the affect on his mental health. The standard of managers and HR is appalling.

Does he have any options regarding compensation for what he and I believe was a response to him whistleblowing about an impossible job and the negative effect on vulnerable people?

Highly unlikely. There was an allegation. There was a process. In this case the process worked - the allegation was disproven. So no detriment. And having an "impossible job" isn't a matter for a protected disclosure. If it were, millions of purple would be reporting them! I'm afraid of hrs unhappy, the answer needs to be, get another job.

kingfisherblue

andygb wrote: »

(on one day there were over 100 emails sent to me by various members of the team, each one demanding an immediate response).

Just out of interest Andy, did you find that you couldn't deal with emails on your personal account at all? I was a founding member of a community group and had a similar experience a few years ago. It reached the stage where I couldn't open my emails, and had to ask my daughter to open them and check to see if there were any from certain people - I was a wreck. I decided to resign in the end, even though the group benefited my children. I just had to stop the demands.

It took me a few weeks, but I managed to open my own emails again without the dread, but it has left a long term effect. I still don't like email communication.

Apologies for going off topic.

System

I admit when i was off work from my last ob the last thing i wanted to do was leave the house and see poeple, partly because of my mental illness and partly because i was paranoid someone from work would see me and thibk i was fine to look at, like nothing was wrong. It was only with support from my psychiatrist and community psychiatric nurse that i was able to leave the house and socialise (not talking nights out more meeting people for a coffee kind of thing), they said i had to get past my paranoia of people seeing me and stop isolating myself .

So on the one hand i can see where if you're stressed you might be social and it might be helpful to take a holiday. On the other if he's posted all of it on sicual media its going to go against him. I dont have anyone from work on social media, they are all blocked so they can;t see what i post (not that im hiding a wild life i just dont want to have to censor my life cos of people scrutinising my social media)

Nual

How can you say there was no detriment? A man has been on the verge of a breakdown for months, forced to go through a procedure that should never have been allowed to go this far. The issue re the impossible job included far too few staff in the team who then went sick and people dying while waiting for a visit. This could well be a case of whistleblowing.

There is a thread elsewhere on this forum suggesting that regular posters are very negative regarding workers rights and very pro HR/ management. That has been my experience with this thread. Most posters are saying suck it up, what can you expect, employer is doing the right thing etc - and quoting examples where people were found to be fraudulently claiming sick leave. Also posts about how he has no chance at the disciplinary hearing. Well it just shows doesn't it.

WestonDave

You could try speaking to a personal injury specialist if you think there is a real connection between their procedures and him becoming unwell, as there might be some compensation for that illness or any loss of earnings. That might cover that side of it and with PI Lawyers often doing free interviews would be a risk free initial option - they'd soon tell you if there was no realistic chance.


Not sure there is much that can be done in terms of forcibly improving working conditions and the danger is that a successful compensation claim would just worsen things. I guess if it was serious enough publicity surrounding a successful claim might prompt a change of working practices.


To be honest I don't think there is much going but a free interview with a solicitor might be worth a try on the off chance that with a full set of information (which understandably you aren't going to reveal here) they think there is something in this.

Nual

Please see latest update on this thread