Final Flight Training loan - First Timer

[Deleted User]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post here and I've just come here for a bit of advice. I've recently finished all of my commercial flight training for my commercial pilots licence. I now work for an airline, and am on a programme that eventually leads to a flying position where I don't have to pay a penny. However, they are quite a small airline. I currently work in the office gaining good experience, but last week I went for another airline assessment. I applied for this said airline before applying for my current position and was successful (It's normal to apply and not hear anything for ages).

The airline requires a further big amount of money to train on their specific aircraft, up front and I will not be paid until about 6 months after I finish my training. Having said that, this is a huge huge airline and is a fantastic opportunity that basically sets you up for your whole life ahead.

I've never applied for a loan before, never been in debt and have I good monthly income from my current position. If I took this new opportunity I would also be getting a significantly better salary than I am at the moment which means I would be able to pay the debt off.

So why have I come here? I have travelled round the internet briefly trying to see what loan packages there are out there but it seems that I wouldn't be eligible for a loan because I haven't applied for one before. How does that work? Surely, I'd be the perfect candidate for a loan with no debts..

So I was just looking for some advice please. I unfortunately am not able to use my families funds for this which I understand, but I really need to lay my options (Loan Packages) out on the table to see if A) Can I actually do it? How much will I be paying back a month after my loan.

Once again, totally new to this so all the acronyms and basics I have no clue about, APR etc etc.

Would really appreciate some advice,

Regards,

[Deleted User]

Not sure where you're getting your understanding from. But that's not correct.

To get credit, you need the best credit history you can. Check your three credit files and report what is on there. Hopefully you'll have credit cards or something that demonstrates you can handled credit. Plus no late payments etc.

Also answer the big question. What do you earn and how much are you looking to borrow?

You'll also need to have been in your job for at least some months.

[Deleted User]

Deleted_User wrote: »

Not sure where you're getting your understanding from. But that's not correct.

To get credit, you need the best credit history you can. Check your three credit files and report what is on there. Hopefully you'll have credit cards or something that demonstrates you can handled credit. Plus no late payments etc.

Also answer the big question. What do you earn and how much are you looking to borrow?

You'll also need to have been in your job for at least some months.

I don't have any credit cards at all, I'm 24 and only have a Debit Card. I've had no need for a credit card? I earn a salary of £26,500 at the moment and looking to borrow approximately £35,000. That's to cover the course and living expenses etc until I get paid.

[Deleted User]

On that basis, the answer is almost certainly going to be no.

You don't earn enough, would need a secured loan and you have no credit history.

Get a card to start building a history, but there is no quick fix for this.

macman

Then the problem isn't your credit history-it's your lack of credit history. What lenders want to see is a record of credit being taken and repaid, on time, consistently. All you probably have in that respect is maybe a mobile phone contract.
And you are looking to borrow about 18 month's salary-how do you intend to service such a loan in the meantime before a salary increase? And over how many years?

Alderbank

macman wrote: »

...And you are looking to borrow about 18 month's salary- how do you intend to service such a loan in the meantime before a salary increase? And over how many years?

My reading is that the loan will not be serviced until 2019 at the earliest. The OP says that as soon as he secures the loan he will resign his current job to work full time unpaid for the big airline until they start to pay him in about 18 months time. I can't see any lender (except the Bank of Mum and Dad, which he has ruled out) agreeing to those terms.

Tristan, you can't be the first to do this. How does the big airline suggest their recruits get the money to pay them and support yourself?

[Deleted User]

Alderbank wrote: »

My reading is that the loan will not be serviced until 2019 at the earliest. The OP says that as soon as he secures the loan he will resign his current job to work full time unpaid for the big airline until they start to pay him in about 18 months time. I can't see any lender (except the Bank of Mum and Dad, which he has ruled out) agreeing to those terms.

Tristan, you can't be the first to do this. How does the big airline suggest their recruits get the money to pay them and support yourself?

I have not said that I won't be paid in the next 18 months... It will be approx 6 months.

coffeehound

OP: how long would it be before you get an F/O position with small airways? £26k+ isn't so bad if it means you don't have to service a debt at the end. Perhaps worth spreadsheeting your projected income and debt with each route (assuming you obtained credit) to help with the decision?

Alderbank

Deleted_User wrote: »

I have not said that I won't be paid in the next 18 months... It will be approx 6 months.

I apologise Tristan, you did indeed say 6 months.

What did the big airline suggest you do?

Westminster

My guess is you are talking about Ryanair.

Unfortunately it will be very tricky for you to access these funds commercially- and I would not anticipate any sympathies from Ryanair over this. They have no difficulties filling their courses and their employment practices are shady at best:

0-hour contracts using third party contract agencies such as Brookfield who require all the pilots to group with small numbers of pilots they never met to form limited companies who can only use one of the Brookfield approved accountancy firms. Your shiny new 0-hour contract then prohibits you from working for anyone else at the same time as dubiously side stepping any sickness / holiday pay / social security payments etc

For you though, the real downer is that these 0-hour pilots do actually earn quite a significant sum. So your only & best hope is to find the money from inside your family.

Good luck - loads of my friends went there and earned good money. They either had quick command upgrade or are now working for 'real' airlines. I was lucky enough to go directly to a real employer and despite moving several times, I've never had to pay for a type rating.

Best of luck.

CKhalvashi

Deleted_User wrote: »

I now work for an airline, and am on a programme that eventually leads to a flying position where I don't have to pay a penny.

So, you won't have to pay a penny but are thinking of going onto a pay to fly scheme?

However, they are quite a small airline.

I'm assuming I know who this is. Is it a charter carrier with a base in the South, that has many blue 737s flying from it? If yes, I'd recommend staying there, not going onto a PTF scheme where you could be based anywhere in Europe at a drop of a hats notice.

I'd also hazard a guess (if I've guessed the company you're working for now) from circulating rumours that you could be looking at the 3-4 year command you'd get at the PTF carrier.

I currently work in the office gaining good experience, but last week I went for another airline assessment. I applied for this said airline before applying for my current position and was successful (It's normal to apply and not hear anything for ages).

That's normal anywhere.

The airline requires a further big amount of money to train on their specific aircraft, up front and I will not be paid until about 6 months after I finish my training. Having said that, this is a huge huge airline and is a fantastic opportunity that basically sets you up for your whole life ahead.

But you get your 738 command and then what? The company in question don't do Long Haul. Assuming from your username you're about 25, can you see yourself buzzing around Europe for the next 40 years being happy? That said, you'll be home every night on a stable roster, which can be a lot better for family life.

I've never applied for a loan before, never been in debt and have I good monthly income from my current position. If I took this new opportunity I would also be getting a significantly better salary than I am at the moment which means I would be able to pay the debt off.

You haven't got the job yet. Is the PTF scheme for a contract or permanent position? Not having had credit in the past may be a problem.

So why have I come here? I have travelled round the internet briefly trying to see what loan packages there are out there but it seems that I wouldn't be eligible for a loan because I haven't applied for one before. How does that work? Surely, I'd be the perfect candidate for a loan with no debts.

You're not the perfect candidate as you've got no real credit history. A pilot-specific site would be a much better one to try, however I doubt anyone over there would be able to help too.

So I was just looking for some advice please. I unfortunately am not able to use my families funds for this which I understand, but I really need to lay my options (Loan Packages) out on the table to see if A) Can I actually do it? How much will I be paying back a month after my loan.

It depends what the TR and the living costs are for 6 months. A TR for both the 73NG and A320 family are retailing at about €15k on the open market. If you have an offer from an airline to pay for it (as I assume from your opening post) then fantastic. If they are, expect to be bonded for 3-4 years.

Once again, totally new to this so all the acronyms and basics I have no clue about, APR etc etc.

APR is Annual Percentage Rate. A 1% APR on a £10k non-reducing debt is 1% of £10k or £100. The lower the number the better, however the rate you'd get (assuming someone would fund it, which is unlikely) is unlikely to be good at all.

Would really appreciate some advice,

Regards

Yes, don't pay stupid money to fly a nice shiny 737 for 200 hours. You should be paid to work, not the other way around.

Cityflyer are always looking, as are (at the moment) Jet2 (although not sure of the scheme but believe it's bonded) and smaller airlines like Titan, who have (in the last few months) taken delivery of another 2 aircraft.

Again, not sure on Jet2, but believe the other 2 won't charge stupid money for a type rating.

Can I just point out (before anyone accuses me of being harsh) that I wish OP best of luck in whatever he chooses, however I'm against PTF schemes as I don't believe good enough = able to pay. It just messes up the job prospects of those (like OP) that aren't in a position to find the money upfront.