Co-worker editing documents with "(s)he" to just "he" about generic people

PossiblyOverworked

gettingtheresometime wrote: »

Yes the problem is obviously with him.

I know (or I think I know!) you are being sarcastic, but why? Am I obviously in the wrong (I'm genuinely asking!)

sangie595

PossiblyOverworked wrote: »

I know (or I think I know!) you are being sarcastic, but why? Am I obviously in the wrong (I'm genuinely asking!)

If you are genuinely asking, the answer is already somewhere several pages back. You already know how powerful language can be - that was ostensibly the reason for this thread. But the language that you use on here indicates an attitude from you that supports some of the things that your management have been saying. Maybe you don't see it. But if someone told me that they didn't know how to do something, I wouldn't refer them to a set of instructions - I'd get out the instructions and work through them with them to make sure they understood, then say come back if you get stuck. Just a slight investment of time to make someone feel comfortable with a task they haven't done before.

If this is the way you normally deal with people, you aren't making any friends.

Nicki

PossiblyOverworked wrote: »

I know (or I think I know!) you are being sarcastic, but why? Am I obviously in the wrong (I'm genuinely asking!)

You've had multiple disciplinaries arising out of the complaints from more than just your line manager and John, so yes you clearly are not performing in the way both your employer and your colleagues are entitled to expect.

Given that one of those disciplinaries was actually about not just referring your colleagues to an ISO document when asked for guidance I'm surprised you are still saying that you don't know what to do in that circumstance! Surely as part of the disciplinary when they were trying to address your obstructive behaviour, they indicated what was expected?

As you also had a warning for not answering John's question about how your projects were progressing, it is clear that he was entitled and did have the authority to ask you that question, so again why are you still maintaining that he does not? If you genuinely can't see the problems with your behaviour, you have bigger issues at work than the use of (s)he in official documents!

gettingtheresometime

PossiblyOverworked wrote: »

I know (or I think I know!) you are being sarcastic, but why? Am I obviously in the wrong (I'm genuinely asking!)

sangie595 wrote: »

If you are genuinely asking, the answer is already somewhere several pages back. You already know how powerful language can be - that was ostensibly the reason for this thread. But the language that you use on here indicates an attitude from you that supports some of the things that your management have been saying. Maybe you don't see it. But if someone told me that they didn't know how to do something, I wouldn't refer them to a set of instructions - I'd get out the instructions and work through them with them to make sure they understood, then say come back if you get stuck. Just a slight investment of time to make someone feel comfortable with a task they haven't done before.

If this is the way you normally deal with people, you aren't making any friends.

Thank you Sangie for putting it so politely!


OP - if you'd said that to me then I may not have reported the conversation but I would have thought you were an unhelpful mare who needed to learn the art of team work.


You obviously have an issue with a) John b) his promotion and c) the company in general. You need another job - or better still to set up your own company so you can run it the way you wish

getmore4less

PossiblyOverworked wrote: »

That's a good question and there are 2 answers (I don't know which takes priority in my mind, really) 1. I am actively taking courses and studying things that could lead to a career in the "teapot" design industry elsewhere, so until I finish them I am just biding my time (don't want an unnecessary job-hopping arrangement on my CV),


carefully selected jobs are not a problem expereince is more valuable that quals in most industries.


and 2. I feel like if I leave they will be a bit screwed,

Get that out of your head that is not your problem.

even if I'm not the most popular person I am by far the most productive and know the most about all the processes (yes, even more then Senior-John!) and so I would be leaving them in the whatsit if I were to leave. There are many times a day I'm asked how to deal with "such and such situation" as managers and colleagues have no idea.

That's the problem you need to fix,

Clearly you are failing to understand the dynamics of the workplace and how to use that to your advantage to get on get pay rises, more responsibility and opportunities to develop beyond the current envelope.

You don't have to be liked in a workplace but you do your utmost to not be disliked and it appears you are failing at that.

If the place is as you describe and you are really as good as you think you are you could have that place eating out of your hand within a couple of months.

You need to work on why people don't like you and undo that, it most cases it is simply a slight change in attitude, you are not trying to make best friends just to neutralize opinions to start with.
(sangie covered an example)

You need to get to the stage where people not only have to come to you but want to.

There also seems to be another issue that your interactions with more senior management are not that positive mainly warnings and negative stuff.
One strategy here is to become the go to fixer when the fan is spinning and brown stuff flying and the bosses boss starts to take an interest you are seen to be the one that fixes things or is at least involved, you have to do it silently without upsetting others but just get noticed by the right people.

There are probably other opportunities, understaffing often throws up productivity issues that can be fixed.

If people are always asking questions there are issues with training and processes that could be addressed.

Without knowing a bit more about the environment/products it will be difficult to pindown specific examples.


From your very first post this sticks in my mind.

I asked why (in a "what should I do differently next time so you don't have to edit it" way although that was sort of passive aggressive on my part)

I suspect you come across like this a lot and is the root cause of your likability.

There is probably also an element of "I am better than all of you" that you can't contain, no one likes a smart !!!.

One thing I have noticed over the years is those with children tend to have far more empathy for workplace dynamics, I guess they are more used to dealing with tantrums.

RuthnJasper

I haven't been on MSE for a while (been in and out of hospital). Threads like this make me quite sad. With all that's going on in this country and overseas, pages of posts about what is a very trivial issue seem very petty.


OP - you have two choices, essentially.
Leave.
Stay and deal with John with good grace. It's not his fault he was promoted over you and he probably doesn't appreciate a bad atmosphere in the workplace either. Certainly not passive-aggression and the feeling of being undermined.


Best wishes to you.

Malthusian

If the place is as you describe and you are really as good as you think you are you could have that place eating out of your hand within a couple of months.

I'm now inclined to believe that the OP might be right about her being indispensible, because it would explain why they keep her around even though they - for whatever reason - have so many problems with her attitude / demeanour. If she was merely average they may already have gotten rid of her. But she is good enough at the nuts and bolts of design and manufacturing that the positives outweigh the negatives.

If she worked on her teamwork skills in a spirit of genuine desire to grow stronger (as opposed to "I don't need teamworking skills because if I do the job properly everyone is obliged to be happy" - which is an attitude I used to be susceptible to) then perhaps she would have them eating out of her hand after a year. If you are good at one aspect of a job but weak at another then there's nothing like working on the weakness to produce rapid results - it's low-hanging fruit.

sangie595

Malthusian wrote: »

I'm now inclined to believe that the OP might be right about her being indispensible, because it would explain why they keep her around even though they - for whatever reason - have so many problems with her attitude / demeanour. If she was merely average they may already have gotten rid of her. But she is good enough at the nuts and bolts of design and manufacturing that the positives outweigh the negatives.
.

And maybe that is why they like John! I don't know whether he is as good at stuff as the OP (they say not, but that may not be true) but maybe he is the turn to person because the OP isn't.

silverwhistle

sangie595 wrote: »

But if someone told me that they didn't know how to do something, I wouldn't refer them to a set of instructions - I'd get out the instructions and work through them with them to make sure they understood, then say come back if you get stuck. Just a slight investment of time to make someone feel comfortable with a task they haven't done before.

If I were busy I might send they away to have a look through it first, with a sympathetic laugh about how indigestible it was, and arrange a more convenient time in the very near future to review it. You'd welcome their initial thoughts etc..

But I agree with sangie that there appears to be lots of um... friction in your dealings with other people.

TBagpuss

PossiblyOverworked wrote: »

It's just so frustrating that he has a history of bigoted comments and behaviour like this, but nothing has been done about it, but at the same time he has got me and other co-workers in "hot water" with HR due to minor things that are now on our permanent records. I just don't see why he is immune to this (unless there is something "going on" between him and our manager, which I have considered, and there is a sort of flirting quality to it but I don't think it's anything substantial.)

As in.. I saw and heard him reviewing CVs and threw them in the bin because "we don't want someone from Kerblikistan* here cos they won't fit in" (*obviously just a placeholder) and I didn't say anything because actually I didn't know what I could say. Actually even apart from nationality, he threw all kinds of CVs in the bin because "not enough experience" or whatever, and who knows what happened to the personal information on those CVs? - they were submitted to a HR department or hiring manager, and for myself if submitting a CV with things like my date of birth and address on it, I wouldn't be too happy to hear it had just been thrown out with the general rubbish where any identity thief could get hold of it.

The part I've coloured is key. You cannot reasonable expect the company to deal with an issue that has not been brought to their attention. Unless someone more senior to John saw / heard him then they won't know about the issue and can't act on it.
You could, at the time, have spoken to your line manager or to HR and said "John was reviewing CVs today. He looked at a CV and said "we don't want someone from Kerblikistan* here cos they won't fit in" and threw away the application. I'm concerned that this amounts to illegal discrimination which could cause a lot of trouble for the company, and it it uncomfortable to witness that kind of racism, so I thought I should let you know"

it is not reasonable, or realistic, to expect HR to throw the book at him for what is a comparatively minor, and (as far as they know, if no-one else has reported anything either) isolated incident, simply because you've seen him do other things which you didn't report.

(And I say all of this as someone who feels strongly about inclusive language)