New Job Offer Accepted, Double Checking on Honouring Holidays!

Stylehutz

Undervalued wrote: »

Why? An interview is a two way process. Also, an employer needs to be careful about asking questions that could give rise to an accusation of discrimination. Although not specifically prohibited it could be interpreted as a way of digging for information regarding the applicant's family or caring responsibilities.

EH, Don't Understand.

Employer asks candidate, Do you have any holiday commitments?

Whats discrimanatory about that?
I have been asked that question many times by interviews

Masomnia

Stylehutz wrote: »

EH, Don't Understand.

Employer asks candidate, Do you have any holiday commitments?

Whats discrimanatory about that?
I have been asked that question many times by interviews

Candidate replies I can't work at all over Christmas/Ramadan/Chanukah , Easter/Eid x 2/Passover, and need a week off for my Hajj/Buddhist temple which is booked for next month (delete as appropriate) isn't offered the post and comes to the conclusion that it was for discriminatory reasons. It does happen, and you can replace the above with any other religious festival or family event.

I've been asked it too at interviews and it seems reasonable, but I've also been on the receiving end of a candidate telling me that I was illegally discriminating against them because I was asking for at least 2 years experience in a similar role. There are some who will try anything!

Manxman_in_exile

Stylehutz wrote: »

It should be the employers job to ask at interviews if a candidate has any holiday committments. Not the other way round. Instead they would rather ask you at interview Questions like, if you were a biscuit what biscuit would you be?

But employer's don't have to ask this question do they? (Perhaps they ought to, but do they have to?). If the candidate doesn't mention it at interview and subsequently tells the employer that they need next week off and the employer says "no", where does your advice leave the OP?

Manxman_in_exile

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

You'd start by asking that those holiday dates should be included in their offer letter. If that didn't happen, you'd be writing to accept their job offer on the understanding that your request to take holiday on the following dates would be honoured. You'd ask for a response to that letter in writing. And you'd work your cotton socks off and not get up anyone's nose in the hope that those leave requests didn't upset anyone important ...

Again playing Devil's Advocate, does that mean that new employees can manipulate better conditions re booked holidays than existing employees? Does the exchange of letters etc pre-employment making the holiday a condition of employment over-ride the employer's right to cancel holidays by giving the same notice as the length of holiday? (Again, apols if I've misunderstood this, but I thought that this was the position from what I've read previously on this board).


So if the OP takes the job on the basis that the employer honours that commitment, but the employer subsequently says "the needs of the business regrettably mean that we can no longer honour that commitment", where does the OP stand? (EDIT: If I were the OP this is what I would want to know. Are the holidays "guaranteed" or not)


I'm genuinely interested about this.

Savvy_Sue

Thought I'd answered this, must have got lost ...

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

Again playing Devil's Advocate, does that mean that new employees can manipulate better conditions re booked holidays than existing employees? Does the exchange of letters etc pre-employment making the holiday a condition of employment over-ride the employer's right to cancel holidays by giving the same notice as the length of holiday? (Again, apols if I've misunderstood this, but I thought that this was the position from what I've read previously on this board).

Yes, and no.

Yes, new employees can at least attempt to manipulate better conditions, not only re booked holidays but also re salaries, hours and 'perks'. Entirely down to their negotiating skills, as evidenced by the not infrequent question on this board along the lines of "I've been working here much longer than my colleague who's not as qualified as I am and now I've found out they're being paid twice as much, that's not fair / legal is it?" Maybe not fair, almost certainly legal.

No, such an exchange wouldn't over-ride the employer's right to cancel holiday with sufficient notice. And an employer might genuinely intend to honour a holiday request, but realise nearer the time that it actually wasn't possible.

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

So if the OP takes the job on the basis that the employer honours that commitment, but the employer subsequently says "the needs of the business regrettably mean that we can no longer honour that commitment", where does the OP stand? (EDIT: If I were the OP this is what I would want to know. Are the holidays "guaranteed" or not)

The OP would then have to decide whether three weddings and a week at Center Parcs were more important than a newly started job. Might depend on whether failure to attend one of those weddings or the holiday would lead to a funeral, or not.

Would I prioritise my own wedding plans over a new job? Absolutely. My sibling's? Not necessarily.

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

I'm genuinely interested about this.

Nothing in this life is guaranteed ... And let's face it, if the OP is currently in work, then there's possibly as much chance their current employer will have to cancel the leave.

OP, if you can get your holiday requests noted in writing within your offer letter, that's a good start. Whether you do or not, within your first week make sure that you find out how to make a leave request, and formally request the days you want. If you read it in the staff handbook, great. If it's a colleague who tells you how it works, check it out with your manager. Do not assume it works the same way at your new job as it does at any previous job. Do not assume that handing in a form means the request has been noted and granted. And if there's a rota, find out how much in advance it appears, and keep checking. And while I wouldn't badger whoever draws the rota up, I would discreetly find out how they check who's available and who's on leave when they're doing that job ...

Stylehutz

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

But employer's don't have to ask this question do they? (Perhaps they ought to, but do they have to?). If the candidate doesn't mention it at interview and subsequently tells the employer that they need next week off and the employer says "no", where does your advice leave the OP?

They should ask it. It should be a priority question when interviewing candidates. Still dont get why its discrimatory to ask. People should get time off for religious festivals if it doesnt disrupt the companies needs as like everyone wanting xmas off and the employer cant always accommodate. Either the employer can agree to it or they cant. If the candidate doesnt like it, look for another role.

Manxman_in_exile

Savvy_Sue


Thank you for that explanation. I thought that that indeed was the position. What confused me was this post...

getmore4less wrote: »

By making the holidays a contractual condition on taking the position that overrides statutory notice and any normal contractual conditions.

...which I understood to mean that the employer could not subsequently say "Sorry no holiday" by giving the required notice.


I suppose my point is that on Monday the employer could agree to the holidays but later on renege on this and say "No". With presumably just one days notice in respect of each of the three weddings?


I just thought that the OP needs, perhaps, to be aware of this possibility? (Hopefully it won't happen).

elsien

Why should it be a priority question - if it's so important to the candidate then the candidate will raise it anyway.
The priority questions are whether the candidate has the skills for the job involved, not whether they want a week off next October.

Gavin83

Stylehutz wrote: »

Questions like, if you were a biscuit what biscuit would you be?

If I was asked a question like that I'd instantly thank them for their time, end the interview and walk out. It would tell me what I needed to know, no point wasting everyone's time.

Masomnia wrote: »

Candidate replies I can't work at all over Christmas/Ramadan/Chanukah , Easter/Eid x 2/Passover, and need a week off for my Hajj/Buddhist temple which is booked for next month (delete as appropriate) isn't offered the post and comes to the conclusion that it was for discriminatory reasons. It does happen, and you can replace the above with any other religious festival or family event.

The first two aren't scheduled holidays so aren't really appropriate answers to that question IMO. Besides there's still no obligation for the employer to give religious holidays off.

The last point it's the potential employees choice to bring up the reason for the holiday, they don't have to. They could simply say "I need this particular week off".

Stylehutz

elsien wrote: »

Why should it be a priority question - if it's so important to the candidate then the candidate will raise it anyway.
The priority questions are whether the candidate has the skills for the job involved, not whether they want a week off next October.

Priority question by interviewers so they know if candidate has any holidays booked, they can then agree to it and offer job

By not asking, candidate is now in a stronger position to accept job as they will want to know if their holidays booked will be honoured,