Is this mortgage fraud or conspiracy to fraud?

dunstonh

amnblog wrote: »

Good luck with that one Dunston if they are happy to falsify CML Decs.

As I was typing it it, I was thinking that they probably didnt issue it. However, if it isnt, then all the Op has to do is look up the company on the FCA register. That has the complaints address on it and they can add the failure to supply the document to their list of complaints.

kempstar

davidmcn wrote: »

Hmm. It doesn't sound like mortgage fraud (because you disclosed the relevant info to the lender), and it's not conspiracy to commit fraud (because that takes two people planning to do it, not one person suggesting it and the other rejecting it). But it's certainly worthy of complaint/reporting to the regulators at the very least.

Thanks for all the replies everyone. Just to address the above reply - I think it almost certainly is conspiracy to commit fraud. Perhaps it was not clear in my email extract, but that is from one person at the brokerage emailing me, and he/she also refers to XXXXX, so there are two people involved.

It is also part of a wider complaint. The broker also has a property sourcing arm. They sourced a property for me and charged a fairly significant fee. They assured me that the property they found me would be mortgagable. We have exchanged, and the properties have since been found to not be mortgagable. Four seperate surveyors have refused to give them a value based on various reasons.

I am in the position where I could complete for cash, even though I do not want to. I would prefer to withdraw from the exchange, which will obviously be difficult. I am looking at my options for claiming back the sourcing fee, on the grounds that the properties were not mortgagable. I am hoping to use the fraud angle as some leverage, as I think the fines for brokers breaking the rules in this way can be very high.

amnblog

As you lift the layers it smells more and more.

kempstar

Tell me about it. I have already spoken to a Solicitor about attempting to withdraw from the exchange based on the "mortgagable" representation. I think this will be difficult, costly, as well as time-consuming.

I am starting to think that the best approach would be to complete for cash. Then to pursue the broker/sourcer for a refund of all fees as well as some compensation, with the threat of taking the fraud complaint further.

The property itself is in a block of flats, and the flats that have already completed (these were cash buyers) have rented out quickly.

I think a couple of years down the line, it may be possible to refinance, as the main issue highlighted by the surveyors has been a lack of comparables in the area. Most of the properties in this part of the City are two bed houses rather than flats. In a couple of years, all of these purchases will be visible on the land registry, giving comparables, plus they will no longer be considered new builds.

fewcloudy

kempstar wrote: »

I am starting to think that the best approach would be to complete for cash. Then to pursue the broker/sourcer for a refund of all fees as well as some compensation, with the threat of taking the fraud complaint further.

Hmm. Not sure about this bit. I think you should either report them for suspected mortgage fraud, or not.

But threatening to expose them/report them unless they refund you all your fees sounds like some sort of blackmail.

fc

silvercar

Do you really want to complete on a flat that is effectively unmortgageable?

societys_child

refund of all fees as well as some compensation, with the threat of taking the fraud complaint further

Blackmail is not a good idea . . .

kempstar

silvercar wrote: »

Do you really want to complete on a flat that is effectively unmortgageable?

Ideally no, ideally I would just walk away. However I have exchanged, so I cant do that. Well I could, but I would lose my exchange deposit (£10k), plus the sourcing fee, plus legal costs incurred, plus potentially damages.

The flats are renting well, and getting a decent income. It is not a huge amount of cash (£100k).

The sourcing company have said that they may be able to speak to the developer about releasing us from the contracts, and refunding our fees in full, but only once they have been remarketed as 'cash only', and sold.

This could take a long time, they might sell for lower than we paid, they might never sell! To be honest, I dont want the stress of this hanging over me for another few months.

And of course I will not be outright blackmailing this company, however if there is any way I can use this as leverage to get my money back then for sure I will be doing it.

getmore4less

property sourcing company with connections.....

I thought people had stopped falling for those scams after Inside track and Instant Access Properties took people for a big ride back in 2000s..

kempstar

getmore4less wrote: »

property sourcing company with connections.....

I thought people had stopped falling for those scams after Inside track and Instant Access Properties took people for a big ride back in 2000s..

Thats really useful thanks.

The company in question has been around for 20 years plus. It is certainly not a scam company, nor is this a scam, however, with this particular development they have handled things particularly badly.