Brexit, The Economy and House Prices (Part 2)

GreatApe

Rusty_Shackleton wrote: »

Thanks for the considered response greatape, some good points. I think the big difference is there are areas such as jobs and housing where previous generations did have it better,

This is largely a myth, selective memory or confirmation bias etc

Housing was cheaper because everything else was so much more expensive especially necessities like food. So while houses were cheaper 50 years ago, it did not mean they were more affordable. If so much more (lets say all) of your income goes on food/cloths etc then it doesn't matter how cheap housing is you cant afford to buy. This is why housing was cheap in the past but also ownership was lower, housing was cheaper (also of lower quality) but people still couldn't afford them

Also 50 years ago not as many people got significant inheritances, in the UK most the locals will inherit housing for free and although houses were cheaper in the past they certainly were free.

Also the quality and ease of jobs is so much better now, you did an 8 hour day and probably browsed the web for 6 hours spending all that time complain how jobs in the past were better. Its funny to read. One of the reasons life expectancy is better is because work is so much easier and safer

and regardless of the score overall, there is an expectation that it shouldn't get considerably worse...

It is not even a little bit worse it is much much better, the problem is people like me are rare the people who say hold on a minute life is good. The people who have !!!! lives complain, rightly, but others with not !!!! lives dont speak up as they are embarrassed to say so

Every real metric is better now. Houses are bigger and better. Jobs are better paid (despite what the internet forums whiners will have you believe) easier and safer. Almost all goods and services are more advanced and cheaper.

They are also 2 extremely important aspects of life, which most importantly impact on family life as well, considering the knock on affect of having children (or not as the case may be)

People are getting married later, or not at all, despite high house prices. This is easy to prove if you look at cheaper vs more expensive parts of the uk it doesn't really make a difference to marriage and kids. Or if you look at Germany they have very cheap houses but even lower marriage an kids.

Theres also the small matter that the housing situation has been caused by previous' generations greed, failing to build sufficient housing because fuelling property values has been extremely popular politically.

I used to think we had a housing shortage I dont think that is the case anymore. I think I was wrong in the past. Housing is expensive is not the same as a housing shortage. For instance statistically the population has more residential floor space per capita than any time in history.

Its all very well that some us will inherit that wealth,

Thats the thing, its not 'some of us' it is most of us will inherit or get gifted huge amounts of wealth. Again people dont talk about this in the real world as its not polite conversation or someone you can ask someone. Needless to say the fitures are around £200 billion passed down annually an absolutely massive scale of transfer of wealth (equal to about 1 million homes fully paid off per year passed from old to young)

but at the expense of many others in our own generation,

like what?

and also with increasing life spans, at a much later stage of our lives. Its a really messed up situation that has had and will continue to have ugly repercussions.

The primary reason life starts later is that 1: education used to finish at 15 now its 18 or for half the population 22. The second reason is we can afford to start life later there isnt the need to marry off your children in their teens so they can go off in the world and not be so much of a burden.

I for one am incredibly jealous of societys such as Norway, look at what they did with oil revenue, creating the worlds largest sovereign wealth fund to benefit all of their country.

Its stupid to be jealous of geological formations. To be honest I am jealous of swedens/Iceland hydroelectric power. If we had the same amount per capita as the Icelanders we would be a hell of a lot richer. But that is neither here nor there.

What did we do around the same time with north sea oil? We funded tax cuts. Effing brilliant. We can truly be a greedy self-centred, short sighted little island, and its a real shame.

We had 1/10th per capita as much as they did so it is not at all comparable.
Also the UK was very poor prior to thatcher with too much union power
I would say dont judge a decade until you have lived a year in it.

bobbymotors

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ WELL SAID GREAT APE

50 years ago it was 1967....

We had:

a 17 inch black and white telly
the only running hot water was in the kitchen from an ascot heater
no central heating (but several fireplaces)
an 8 year old car that was guaranteed to rust away on its 10 th birthday, do 18 to the gallon and break down 4 times a year
9 months wait for a phone line to be installed
lower life expectancy
no washing machine or freezer
up to 98% tax for the very rich
strawberries from mid may to the end of july and never any other time
5 star petrol that is still poisoning us today because of all the lead in it.
One weeks holiday at Butlins in bognor regis

Nowadays people consider themselves poor if they don't have a flatscreen TV or the latest iphone.

It's MILES better today than it was years ago.

Rusty_Shackleton

Greatape, im not going to go through point by point, but youve made a lot of sweeping statements portrayed as fact that fly in the face of my own experience, the experiences of others around me, and official statistics.

Case in point: there might not be a housing shortage, if you count all residential properties compared to the number of people in the country. That doesnt stop a huge number of people being homeless (and not just living on the street homeless, the hidden ones spending ages in b&bs or couch surfing). It also ignores where the housing is compared to where the demand is.

Similarly your claim about inheritence... I just, i dont know where you get this idea. Theres an awful lot of wealth to be inherited, but its not going to be spread widely amongst the population.

Also, not jealous of geological formations, but the socially responsible actions of a government with their windfall. I think we'd all be better off with leaders (and an electorate that supports them) that have foresight and see the long game. What the hell does the unions/thatcher have to do with thatcher spending north sea oil revenue on tax cuts?

With regards to other expenses compared to housing, its not something ive looked into enough to comment on stats, but from discussions with my parents, aunts/uncles, and colleagues... All in the 40-60 age bracket, who all have sympathy for my generation and admit that life was cheaper... Granted, foreign holidays and other luxuries werent such an option, but to say food cost so much it outweighed housing? That sounds ridiculous.

Thrugelmir

gfplux wrote: »

Warning Brexit related post in a BREXIT THREAD.

But Bobby they DID SAY that they ran their business badly. They DID NOT hedge the currency.
That means they ran their business badly. They took a chance, they gambled, they lost.
Because they got caught out by the Brexit vote all those, 260 is it, people lost their jobs.
People who in business that know about currency exposure (like me) know exactly why this company went Bankrupt. The management are probably saying (between the lines) we know we were stupid but Brexit was the last straw that broke the camels back, we thought there would not be any big currency movements and certainly not against us.
Saying what they said in the statement is code for "we got it wrong, the Brexit vote killed us"

Think that you are barking up the wrong tree with this line of attack. In particular commenting on a business that failed without knowing the full facts.

bobbymotors

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Think that you are barking up the wrong tree with this line of attack. In particular commenting on a business that failed without knowing the full facts.

I don't know the full fact, nor do any of us.

But I do know how that sort of business works. They will have lost a major order, be buying too dear, selling too cheap, be too expense heavy or something similar.

Brexit is just an excuse.

Thrugelmir

Herzlos wrote: »

Sorry, average UK wage of who's left.

Then depends who leaves.

Thrugelmir

gfplux wrote: »

Yes cheap devalued currency but not so much sun on the beach.

Sun isn't good for fair skinned people. Ages one quicker too.

I prefer to keep my young looks and reduce the possibility of skin cancer. :cool:

Thrugelmir

bobbymotors wrote: »

I don't know the full fact, nor do any of us.

But I do know how that sort of business works. They will have lost a major order, be buying too dear, selling too cheap, be too expense heavy or something similar.

Brexit is just an excuse.

Agree totally. Having been on the inside of company finance. Even employees have no idea of what actually is going on day to day within a business. How thin a line is walked. Biggest failure rate is due to cashflow not profitability.

economic

Rusty_Shackleton wrote: »

With regards to other expenses compared to housing, its not something ive looked into enough to comment on stats, but from discussions with my parents, aunts/uncles, and colleagues... All in the 40-60 age bracket, who all have sympathy for my generation and admit that life was cheaper... Granted, foreign holidays and other luxuries werent such an option, but to say food cost so much it outweighed housing? That sounds ridiculous.

my parents were migrants with next to nothing in savings. they worked hard and saved as much as they could but found it all went away to mortgage and things like food and energy. they had to borrow money from family for a deposit to buy their first home. they certainly found food etc taking away a large chunk of their income. they hardly saved much initially. my dad worked weekdays from 8am (left at 6am to drive into the city) and came back 9pm everyday. he also worked saturdays most of the time. this was in his 20s and 30s. he slogged his a$$ off. it all paid off later as he got promoted and his wages went up as he had valuable skills. he is mortgage free and has substantial savings now so he is retired now in his early 60s.

he did not have a degree. he didnt even have Alevels. i would say in terms of education he is equivalent to someone who has done a a crappy degree from a crappy uni. what are the graduates who have done crappy degrees from crappy unis doing? i bet you they are not working weekends or extra hours. yet they have affordable housing, the benefits of current and future technological/healthcare advancements (each generation truly does stand on the shoulders of previous generations' giants) and cheap food. imagine the possibilities if these graduates worked a little harder.

GreatApe

bobbymotors wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ WELL SAID GREAT APE

50 years ago it was 1967....

We had:

a 17 inch black and white telly
the only running hot water was in the kitchen from an ascot heater
no central heating (but several fireplaces)
an 8 year old car that was guaranteed to rust away on its 10 th birthday, do 18 to the gallon and break down 4 times a year
9 months wait for a phone line to be installed
lower life expectancy
no washing machine or freezer
up to 98% tax for the very rich
strawberries from mid may to the end of july and never any other time
5 star petrol that is still poisoning us today because of all the lead in it.
One weeks holiday at Butlins in bognor regis

Nowadays people consider themselves poor if they don't have a flatscreen TV or the latest iphone.

It's MILES better today than it was years ago.

even you were lucky,

I think one of my poor great grandmas died soon after accidentally dropping boiling water on herself. No gas central or electricity heating no kettles the way it was done was heating water over an open fire both the transfer of the water was dangerous and the open fires are bad for health generally. It was either coal or wood

Anyway it wasn't that long ago people only bathed once a week!
I cant imagine not having a shower every day its so easy you just walk into the bathroom and turn the thing on.

The young uns they really dont know what it was like. They spend 6 hours a day at work on the internet complaining on forums how hard they have it :rotfl: and how easy the past was :rotfl: