Gross Dismissal and appeal

sezza1975

just wondered if anyone had any advice for me. I am a teacher I have been unfairly dismissed and I'm in the middle of an appeal. However, I asked my place of work for a reference for a non educational position, asking them to state start date, end date and dismissal. I had rung a few agencies, been honest with them and they were happy to take me on with this type of reference. however, for some reason my place of work had other ideas and wrote a full disclosed reference which has now prevented me finding any form of work. I am a single parent with no other form of income, any advice would be gratefully received.

pinkshoes

There is nothing to stop them writing a FACTUAL reference, and I'm quite sure you cannot make them limit the reference to dates.

Can you not just miss this job off your CV and say you were not working?

TELLIT01

Not really helpful pinkshoes. Even if the OP got a job by doing that, if the future employer discovered they had been deliberately mislead, or lied to, on a CV the OP would be straight back out the door anyway.
I'm not really sure what the OP can do at this stage, other than await the outcome of the appeal. If they lose, they seem to be up the creek given that they seem to be saying that the alleged reason for dismissal, if proven, makes them unemployable.

IAmWales

Are you a union member OP? They should be helping you with this.

Guest101

sezza1975 wrote: »

just wondered if anyone had any advice for me. I am a teacher I have been unfairly dismissed and I'm in the middle of an appeal. However, I asked my place of work for a reference for a non educational position, asking them to state start date, end date and dismissal. I had rung a few agencies, been honest with them and they were happy to take me on with this type of reference. however, for some reason my place of work had other ideas and wrote a full disclosed reference which has now prevented me finding any form of work. I am a single parent with no other form of income, any advice would be gratefully received.

They can choose to give whatever reference they want, as long as it's truthful.


What did you do?

TBagpuss

OP, unfortunately for you, an employer is perfectly entitled to provide a reference giving as much or as little detail as they chose, provided that the reference if factually accurate. Have you seen a copy of the reference?

depending on the nature of the misconduct, it is also possible that they consider they have a duty to disclose this - it may be worth checking with your union and/or the GTC.

Otherwise, it may be worth contacting your former employer to see whether you can agree a form of words with them, or (possibly, and I would suggest that you take professional advice before trying this) see whether you can negotiate to drop your appeal in return for an agreed reference.

sangie595

sezza1975 wrote: »

just wondered if anyone had any advice for me. I am a teacher I have been unfairly dismissed and I'm in the middle of an appeal. However, I asked my place of work for a reference for a non educational position, asking them to state start date, end date and dismissal. I had rung a few agencies, been honest with them and they were happy to take me on with this type of reference. however, for some reason my place of work had other ideas and wrote a full disclosed reference which has now prevented me finding any form of work. I am a single parent with no other form of income, any advice would be gratefully received.

As already stated, as long as the reference is factual, it is up to the employer what they put in a reference - or even if they give one, which they are not obliged to do.

But I cannot see what the agencies you have spoken to are doing here - they are either lying to you or they are intending to lie to potential clients. Because if they are quite happy with your explanation and satisfied that they can take on someone who has just been dismissed for gross misconduct, then it does not matter what the reference says - it is entirely up to them what they consider acceptable and what they do not. On the other hand, if they want a reference that has no mention of the reason for leaving, I would have to ask why - and the only reason I can think of is plausible deniability when their client finds out you were dismissed. In other words, they will claim they had no idea and that you lied to them. I am certainly struggling to find any good or honest reason for what they have said to you.

If you are a teacher, and you have been unfairly dismissed, why are you looking for a non-educational position? Surely you should be applying for teaching posts and fighting your corner - at the very least to show an employment tribunal that you have tried to obtain equivalent work. It would be a good idea to keep records of having done so, or it could be claimed at a tribunal that you didn't make sufficient efforts to obtain employment.

Undervalued

The only way you can control what they put in a reference is if an agreed wording forms part of a formal settlement agreement. Otherwise they can say anything they like providing it is true and not deliberately misleading.

This sometimes can be far more valuable than a cash settlement. However it does depend on you being in a strong enough position that they will consider settling.

However, I think there may be special rules regarding references for teachers? If so they may be bound by those rules even if you are applying for a non teaching post.

antrobus

sezza1975 wrote: »

just wondered if anyone had any advice for me. I am a teacher I have been unfairly dismissed and I'm in the middle of an appeal. However, I asked my place of work for a reference for a non educational position, asking them to state start date, end date and dismissal. I had rung a few agencies, been honest with them and they were happy to take me on with this type of reference. however, for some reason my place of work had other ideas and wrote a full disclosed reference which has now prevented me finding any form of work. I am a single parent with no other form of income, any advice would be gratefully received.

See this document from the NUT
https://www.teachers.org.uk/help-and-advice/self-help/r/references

For example;

You should note that an adverse finding by your employer may have a continuing impact on your employment prospects even if you subsequently seek employment outside of teaching (i.e. substantiated allegations may be referred to in references). It may be in your interests, therefore, to co-operate with any arrangements adopted by your employer to try to resolve the allegation(s) against you. Statutory guidance provides that wherever possible, you "should be given a full opportunity to answer the allegation and make representations about it." Contact the NUT Adviceline or Wales office if this does not happen in your case.

sezza1975

cant thank you all enough for all the messages and advice. I have a union but everything is taking so long. I wanted a non educational role to cover bills etc for a short term purpose until I can have this whole mess thrown out at the appeal (fingers crossed) I was just surprised that the reference was written like that considering there is an appeal.

motorguy

sezza1975 wrote: »

cant thank you all enough for all the messages and advice. I have a union but everything is taking so long. I wanted a non educational role to cover bills etc for a short term purpose until I can have this whole mess thrown out at the appeal (fingers crossed) I was just surprised that the reference was written like that considering there is an appeal.

It would be very rare - i would have thought - that a gross misconduct dismissal would be overturned on appeal. I take it there is a lot of new evidence has come to light?