'No stopping at all'

jimbob80

We have received a CPN an alleged parking violation at a petrol station. The reason given on the letter says "was parked in an area that should be kept clear at all times".

The signs on site say:

NO STOPPING AT ALL

THIS AREA MUST BE KEPT CLEAR AT ALL TIMES THIS INCLUDES:
PICKING UP, DROPPING OFF, LOADING AND UNLOADING

We had no idea there were restrictions on this site and have seen many people parking exactly where we parked for around 5 mins. We went into the petrol station to get a paper and then sat there for a couple of mins eating some crisps!

People park in this spot all the time and eat McDonalds as there is a drive through right next door - there is even a bin right next to where we parked (which I used to throw away my crisp packet). This is not in a pedestrianised area so the bin is there for cars - how can you use this bin without stopping? Surely this is entrapment?

Aside from this, the sign that says 'no stopping at all', surely they have to define and mark this area? This is a petrol station so you cannot do business with it without stopping? Surely such areas should be defined/marked? There are no road markings at all. There are signs but I've never noticed these before, and as I say, I always see people parked here.

I followed the newbie steps (this is an IPC company) and sent the standard letter with some additions (See below)/

As you can see I added and amended points 4, 5 and 6.

Do you think this was correct/will it hold any water?

I am the keeper of the vehicle and am aware of your purported 'parking charge'.

The driver will not be identified. I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:

1. Who is the party that contracted with your company and are they the landowner?

2. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.

3. Please provide photos of the signs that you say were on site, which you contend formed a contract with the driver.

4. You say the vehicle was “parked in an area that should be kept clear at all times”. Please provide plans that show the exact boundaries of where you can and cannot stop your vehicle on this site. It is impossible to do business with the petrol station without stopping your vehicle; so the boundaries of areas where you can and cannot stop your vehicle must be clearly defined.

5. Please provide photographs of road markings that indicate the boundaries of where you can and cannot stop on this site (as laid out in point 4 above).

6. Please provide all photographs taken of this vehicle, showing how it contravened the boundaries discussed in points 4 and 5 above.

7. Please provide proof that the timing of any camera or timer used was synchronised with all other cameras and/or systems & machines.

Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs, which would be a thinly-veiled attempt at 'double recovery'. I will not respond to debt collectors and to involve a third party would be a failure to mitigate your costs as well as deliberate and knowing misuse of my data.

Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause (e.g. if you do not fully comply with the IPC Code of Practice in terms of signage at this site, as seems likely based on my research) please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me. I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle.

I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Umkomaas

What are you hoping for from your extended appeal?

Which PPC please?

jimbob80

I'm hoping that I don't have to pay the charge! £100 or £60 within 14 days!

PPC is HX Car Park Management Ltd

Umkomaas

Won't have any positive effect. Your appeal will be rejected. Then there'll be a series of (powerless and ignorable) debt collector letters.

This is a new kid on the block, son following in Daddy Marland's footsteps, looking to gouge money from unsuspecting motorists (great scam, ne c'est pas?).

Whether he will follow Daddy and start issuing court claims remains to be seen. May pop his court cherry at some stage, providing he can string a few words together.

Know your enemy:

https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/211664369-HX-Car-Park-Management-Ltd

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/HX_Car_Park_Management.html

Redx

jimbob80 wrote: »

I'm hoping that I don't have to pay the charge! £100 or £60 within 14 days!

PPC is HX Car Park Management Ltd

YOU DONT

You only have to pay if a judge says so, in court, if you lost

jimbob80

Ok, thanks for the replies.

So advice now is to do nothing else unless I get a letter from the court?

What's the worst likely outcome if it went to court and I lost (i.e. what could the cost be?)

The_Deep

Somewhere between £175 and £200, but it could cost the PPC double that, even if they win. p

fisherjim

Follow the advice on here don't go off on a tangent trying your own tack.
Forget the fact that you have seen others parking here or there, and your theory about bins would be laughed at so what!

Admitting you parked under or near a sign telling you not to is really very silly.

This is a private unregulated money making industry on private land they do what ever they want to, and they don't need to mark out the area on the forecourt if they don't want to, there are no actual regulations, only guidelines on signage, which ultimately only a judge would decide upon if it came to that.

jimbob80

The_Deep wrote: »

Somewhere between £175 and £200, but it could cost the PPC double that, even if they win. p

Thank you.

fisherjim wrote: »

Follow the advice on here don't go off on a tangent trying your own tack.
Forget the fact that you have seen others parking here or there, and your theory about bins would be laughed at so what!

Admitting you parked under or near a sign telling you not to is really very silly.

This is a private unregulated money making industry on private land they do what ever they want to, and they don't need to mark out the area on the forecourt if they don't want to, there are no actual regulations, only guidelines on signage, which ultimately only a judge would decide upon if it came to that.

I haven't said any of the above in the appeal, this is only mentioned on this forum. I've not declared who the driver was, or offered any excuses/explanations. Only asked the questions from the template, with a couple of additions.

I have been reading through various threads on here from people who have been preparing a court appearance and it seems like a serious amount of work - with lots of legalise and cross referencing other cases.

There are clearly people on here who know what they're talking about and are very confident/gung ho about taking this on. For a newbie this is daunting and a bit scary and I can understand why people just pay to get rid of it (I get that this is playing into the hands of these companies though, who are bullies).

Umkomaas

For a newbie this is daunting and a bit scary and I can understand why people just pay to get rid of it (I get that this is playing into the hands of these companies though, who are bullies).

I'm afraid that's the dilemma. They won't let go, but it's no effort to them as it's all automated - and on an industrial scale. But to each individual it brings stress and uncertainty, and the PPCs thrive and get rich on it.

You are where you are now, fight or flight. But this can be won, you'll learn lots as you go along (with our help) and come out the other side much wiser about the tricks of the private parking skimdustry - and how to avoid such stress and strain in the future.

fisherjim

There is the crux of it all, the letters, the waffle, the threats, "the discount" the debt collectors, the lies!

All used to one aim, make it time consuming, confusing, and intimidating to make extorting money easier on their part.

Oh and clock up as many victims that fold easily as possible.