Advice for gross misconduct dismissal

NatashaNY

Hi,

Long story short, I was dismissed after 6.5 years of working for BBG and relocating here from the US in 2013. The dismissal was due to an alleged report from another colleague that I had punched her after work, outside a bar.

What happened was, I tried to talk to her as we were leaving the bar and tapped her on the shoulder, she aggressively turned as if looking to attack me and we both got pulled apart by two ex colleagues. The incident took place the same day I found out the fired colleague had sexual relations with the girl making allegations. I had prior history with him and wanted to ask her not to see him again.

The witness statement came from another ex colleague, whom I had dated and lived with. Breaking up in not the not the best terms due to his high expectations of our "potential" relationship. Which gives reason to be biased as a witness and reason to be bitter.

The woman who alleged the incident, is married to another women (I have strong reasons to believe that it is just for documents) as they are freely seeing other men and wife is from the Philippines. All three of them were on the same team and had spent some time together with team outings and drinks etc. Javier (my ex) gave a witness statement, over the phone, saying that I had raised in a fist, and then Alisa's lip was bleeding. No mention of actual friction between us two. Filippo was not called because of the whole scenario.

Company called me to the disciplinary hearing on the same day as my suspension. And the day after to the disciplinary hearing. Mind you the police allegation is not moving forward. I am not sure that is sufficient time for an investigation from the company or enough reason to sack me after 6.5 years and moving here from NY.

After over six years working for the company, I have 60 days to leave the country unless I find a sponsored job. I would love to get opinions. My appeal is on Friday!

NatashaNY

Pardon the typing mistakes. I am in the midst of having lost my job and not wanting to move back to the states...anxiety is kicking in!

tacpot12

Stick to your story that you didn't hit anyone. Try to suggest that while Javier might have thought he saw you raise a fist, what he actually saw was just your arm waving around.

You just need to play down the degree of what occurred and hope they feel it wasn't too bad. You need to remain very calm and don't react angrily or aggressively otherwise you just demonstrate the behaviour they are concerned about.

Ozzuk

Why was her lip bleeding? I wouldn't mind betting they took pictures if it was a cut so be careful if you can't explain that.

sangie595

If this is for real - and I'm not sure that it is - then if you weren't looking to pick a fight in the first place, none of this makes sense. You had "prior history" with some bloke, and wanted to ask her not to see him again. Ask? Really? Even I don't believe that, so it is hardly surprising that your employers didn't either. What business of yours was it?

This reads like a cat fight initiated by a young woman who can't accept that a relationship is over. And bearing in mind that this is your version of events, then that is bad.

I do agree that moving to a disciplinary that quickly is too hasty, and if you weren't warned that you could be dismissed and/ or advised that you could bring a colleague or union rep with you, then the dismissal would be legally unfair. However, given the circumstances, legally that is likely to be a counter balance in any award, and could mean that you would get little or nothing from a claim.

And I'll be honest, the entire saga sounds like a saga from a particularly bad chick flick. He slept with me, she slept with someone else, he slept with the fifth person from the left.... Attacking the credibility of witnesses based on their or your sexual history is not a sound defence. What you need is someone who saw you not hit her. Or, at the very least, someone who didn't see anything like that happen.

On an aside, if you have to return to the USA I seriously hope that you have filed your tax returns for the last six years. Because US citizens have to file tax returns, even if they have no tax to pay, whilst living abroad. And if you haven't you are likely to find yourself in more hot water when you return. My best friend has just surrendered her asU.S. citizenship as result of this law - last year her total tax liability to the U.S. was $61. It cost her £1600 for the specialist accountant to complete her returns! I believe there are big financial penalties for anyone who doesn't file returns.

ScorpiondeRooftrouser

sangie595 wrote: »

If this is for real - and I'm not sure that it is - then if you weren't looking to pick a fight in the first place, none of this makes sense. You had "prior history" with some bloke, and wanted to ask her not to see him again. Ask? Really? Even I don't believe that, so it is hardly surprising that your employers didn't either. What business of yours was it?

This reads like a cat fight initiated by a young woman who can't accept that a relationship is over. And bearing in mind that this is your version of events, then that is bad.

I do agree that moving to a disciplinary that quickly is too hasty, and if you weren't warned that you could be dismissed and/ or advised that you could bring a colleague or union rep with you, then the dismissal would be legally unfair. However, given the circumstances, legally that is likely to be a counter balance in any award, and could mean that you would get little or nothing from a claim.

And I'll be honest, the entire saga sounds like a saga from a particularly bad chick flick. He slept with me, she slept with someone else, he slept with the fifth person from the left.... Attacking the credibility of witnesses based on their or your sexual history is not a sound defence. What you need is someone who saw you not hit her. Or, at the very least, someone who didn't see anything like that happen.

I didn't see anything like that happen.

TBagpuss

the issues over who is or was dating who, who is married and whether the marriage is a sham or not, and the fact that you moved from the USA are none of them relevant to he disciplinary issues.

The company has to make reasonable enquiries and be fair in the process it follows. It doesn't have to be satisfied to a criminal standard of proof and the fact that the police are not pursuing the issue doesn't mean that the company cannot.

I think that if the main person making the allegation is someone who already has a grudge against you it may be worth mentioning that, but bear in mind that by raising that you are also telling your employer that the two of you can't be trusted to work together, so that may not help.

You may find that you have more chance of them changing your decision if you approach it on the basis that the whole incident was extremely unfortunate and inappropriate, that you recognise that and will ensure that nothing similar happens in future and that while you believe that the allegations made against you were signifcantly exagerated and in particular that you did not punch or hit anyone, but that you accept that your own behaviour in entering into a dispute at all was, with hind sight, inappropriate and you regret your part in the incident. If you are claiming that you felt threatened by the other person involved then I think you can say that.

However, on your own statement, you were involved in an altercation in public with a colleague, which caused at least 2 other people to 'pull you apart' and therefore those people presumably felt that one or both of you was at risk. It doesn't seem unreasonable that that would concern the employer, particularly if the police were involved, and if the two of you are both still at the company.

marliepanda

Pulled apart because she looked at you aggressively?!

That sounds incredibly unlikely. You don't need to be pulled part of you are just looking at each other.

You don't need to be pulled apart if you're quite happy to leave the situation.

NatashaNY

Thank you, that is what the legal adviser suggested as well. Rather then point fingers on who did what to explain that I have a good standing record and have never been in trouble before. But clearly we are both not that innocent here.

The entire incident occurred as I tapped her on the shoulder to talk to her as she was leaving and as she turned it looked like she wanted to fight. In any case, we never had issues prior to that day.

JJG

NatashaNY wrote: »

Thank you, that is what the legal adviser suggested as well. Rather then point fingers on who did what to explain that I have a good standing record and have never been in trouble before. But clearly we are both not that innocent here.

The entire incident occurred as I tapped her on the shoulder to talk to her as she was leaving and as she turned it looked like she wanted to fight. In any case, we never had issues prior to that day.

It looks like she wanted to fight, so you did what exactly?

ScorpiondeRooftrouser

NatashaNY wrote: »

Thank you, that is what the legal adviser suggested as well. Rather then point fingers on who did what to explain that I have a good standing record and have never been in trouble before. But clearly we are both not that innocent here.

The entire incident occurred as I tapped her on the shoulder to talk to her as she was leaving and as she turned it looked like she wanted to fight. In any case, we never had issues prior to that day.

How are you "both" not that innocent? What did she do? Looking "like she wanted to fight" is not a crime.

Am I right in assuming that because she "turned round aggressively", "looking like she wanted to fight" (how she knew it was you tapping her on the shoulder you don't say), you hit her?

If you go to an appeal and tell the story you told here you might as well book your plane tickets now.