Abusive Boss

Dazzanic

I will also add what I copied were excel and word documents created by me and were not files of the company server etc

Undervalued

sangie595 wrote: »

Nor that this is the information that they took at all. Nowhere does the OP say what they took.

I'd also be interested in hearing from where this "entitlement" arises. Because taking company information, last time I looked, was anywhere between frowned upon and against the law. I am not aware of any law that says that employees are entitled to take certain types of company information because they might find it useful. It'd be a handy law to know about. So which one is it?

There doesn't need to be one!

We live in the UK, not France. Here everything is allowed unless there is a law specifically forbidding it!

sangie595

Undervalued wrote: »

There doesn't need to be one!

We live in the UK, not France. Here everything is allowed unless there is a law specifically forbidding it!

If, as claimed, it is an entitlement, then yes, there does need to be something that says that. There is no entitlement to take files from your employer. No matter who created them. Or where they were when they filled in information in the course of their duties. The OP appears to have taken information that could be interpreted as business critical - details of clients and prices. There are plenty of cases of people being sued for doing such things. Take a look at this, for example - http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=193109da-d1f1-4684-a37a-ebe45c4ed5a1 Have a look at the information having the quality of confidence - which includes exactly the information that the OP has taken.

Having copied and taken business critical information, it is hardly surprising, as I said before, that the employer is consulting their solicitor. If this information "happened" to fall into a competitors hands, that could have significant impact on the former employer, and I would expect that they would be looking to ensuring that cannot happen. And if such legal steps are taken, then there is every possibility of the former employer threatening the new employer with legal action. It wouldn't be the first time on here that that simple action has resulted in the new employer deciding that the person is too hot to handle, and getting rid of them is the easiest option.

Dazzanic

Files copied were sales to date along with price lists and customer info all of which were on an excel spreadsheet compiled by me
It showed customer, sale price, cost price, profit then a calculation showing expected commission
I understand from a solicitor friend who I've just managed to get in touch with, that "digital information stored electronically cannot be classed as property and as such someone cannot excesice possession of" judges in the UK have made this ruling

sangie595

Dazzanic wrote: »

Files copied were sales to date along with price lists and customer info all of which were on an excel spreadsheet compiled by me
It showed customer, sale price, cost price, profit then a calculation showing expected commission
I understand from a solicitor friend who I've just managed to get in touch with, that "digital information stored electronically cannot be classed as property and as such someone cannot excesice possession of" judges in the UK have made this ruling

That ruling is about intellectual and copyright possession. It had absolutely nothing to do with anything here. Although if you read the ruling carefully, you will find that it does assert that there are distinctions between the physical medium, the rights to information, and the actual information. The actual information cannot be treated as property. The right to that information (which you obtained solely as a result of your employment) can be. Your right to use commercially valuable or sensitive information ceases when your employment ends. As I have already said, the employer can seek to ensure that that information is not misused - that is their legal right. And the consequences of any action by them to ensure that is the case will be yours. There is a difference between "the law" and "the real world". "The law" might not be worth pursuing in a court, save to ensure you are legally bound not to share that information. But a letter from a solicitor to the new employer, which costs next to nothing, saying that you have removed sensitive commercial data, and it is considered that the new employer put you up to this so they will be cited in legal action against you - that can be enough to put the new employer off keeping you. To avoid any prospect of legal action. Or simply because they don't want you removing their commercially sensitive files!

Mersey_2

Dazzanic wrote: »

Files copied were sales to date along with price lists and customer info all of which were on an excel spreadsheet compiled by me

It showed customer, sale price, cost price, profit then a calculation showing expected commission

Which is perfectly normally as you are entitled so to do. It merely evidences your performance for both any bonus or commission accrued which may be owing and also bolsters any CV or reference.


sangie595 appears to be conflating or confusing taking commercial secrets or clients with you - for which it is usual to restrict any employee (although only around half of firms add this restriction to contracts these days as many have failed when challenged as they were too wide in scope ie cannot work within same field within 30 miles) - with simple lists of work carried out.


I repeat it is usual and indeed advisable for employees and especially contractors and consultants to retain copy docs detailing work sheets/time engaged/hours billed and photos of the work in the engineering or design world.


In the legal world, you can take lists of client names, chargeable hours. You can even take precedents and sample (anonymised) letters. What you can't do is publish the hourly rates charged as this may be commercially confidential or reveal the contents of specific files, as the bulk of correspondence will remain privileged even beyond the death of a client.

sangie595

Your problem is that this is not the legal world. And this is not a contractor or a consultant. And even if it were, as several of us have pointed out already, the issue is not what they now say they copied the information for, it is the fact that they got caught by the employer and (a) the employer is entitled to take legal advice and to address any concerns about commercial sensitivity, and (b) not everything in the world is about what the law says, and the former employer stirring the pot with the new employer is something that they can very easily do, and there is nothing to stop them doing so.

Undervalued

sangie595 wrote: »

Your problem is that this is not the legal world. And this is not a contractor or a consultant. And even if it were, as several of us have pointed out already, the issue is not what they now say they copied the information for, it is the fact that they got caught by the employer and (a) the employer is entitled to take legal advice and to address any concerns about commercial sensitivity, and (b) not everything in the world is about what the law says, and the former employer stirring the pot with the new employer is something that they can very easily do, and there is nothing to stop them doing so.

That they could certainly do but they would have no legal claim against the employee unless he actually did something improper with the information. Just having a copy and keeping it to himself, or using it as evidence to pursue a legal claim against his former employer for money owed, is not something they could take action about.

In a way this is a bit like the oft discussed covert recording of a conversation you are party to. It is not a crime nor is it open to any civil action unless you publish the recording or a transcript to a third party.

sangie595

Undervalued wrote: »

That they could certainly do but they would have no legal claim against the employee unless he actually did something improper with the information. Just having a copy and keeping it to himself, or using it as evidence to pursue a legal claim against his former employer for money owed, is not something they could take action about.

In a way this is a bit like the oft discussed covert recording of a conversation you are party to. It is not a crime nor is it open to any civil action unless you publish the recording or a transcript to a third party.

I agree. But as we both know, it isn't always about the law. As I said, I wonder what the new employer might make of a phone call??? They may be fine. They may be rather less than fine.

It would be moot anyway I suspect. It is what it is. The OP, according to their thread on another site, left the drive behind in the office, and no way are they getting back in to retrieve it now. So their evidence is gone anyway. Although there are other differences in the other thread too, so I'm not sure which is the correct version.