NHS Pension - worthwhile?

Ray_Singh-Blue

stoozie1 wrote: »

Thanks peter3hg. He's a dentist, and he won't hit the LTA with the SIPP plus 2x NHS DB scheme memberships, but thanks for mentioning it just in case

Are you sure? NHS pension of £43K per year, 1995 scheme = lifetime allowance of £1M. (20 x annual benefit + lump sum)

justme111

Those who would get 43k pension are in a minority and/or they exist in theory only; they would have to start dentistry at 25 and continue till 65 grossing about 80 k per year, all NHS.

Malthusian

Prospects.ac.uk says NHS consultant dentists can earn just over 100 grand. And as this is the 1995 final salary scheme we're talking about, you don't need to gross 80k per year until 65, only at 65. Plus you could have bought added years. I don't know how many dentists do only or mostly NHS work but it seems more than achievable to me.

brook2jack

Most dentists will hit their peak earning capacity as they speed up , build a stable patient list and become experienced mid thirties to fifties. After that the physical and mental strains take their toll and they slow down. Back ,skin and stress complaints mean few make it to 65 retirement age still working at full pace.

There are only a handful of dental consultants.

82% of dentists do not own a practice so to earn £80,000 a year they would have to complete around 10,000 units of dental treatment i.e. complete around 50 patients treatment each and every day.

Therefore as justme111 said , in theory it's possible, in reality a handful of consultants and practice owners might achieve this but the average dentist hasn't a hope in hell. This is a more realistic survey of earnings but includes private earnings as well

https://www.smarterwebcompany.co.uk/dentalrecruitnetwork2-co-uk/_img/Copy%20of%20Dental%20Salary%20Survey%202016.pdf

justme111

Malthusian wrote: »

Prospects.ac.uk says NHS consultant dentists can earn just over 100 grand. And as this is the 1995 final salary scheme we're talking about, you don't need to gross 80k per year until 65, only at 65. Plus you could have bought added years. I don't know how many dentists do only or mostly NHS work but it seems more than achievable to me.

It is not final salary scheme and have not used to be for general dental practitioners which most of them are . Yes consultants can earn just over 100 grand. So can chefs and I am sure some elite escorts services. The vast majority do not though. It is achievable (or used to be in the past) but in practice it does not happen and should not happen . I can assure you it looks "more than achievable" to you only because you know little about details of work and pensions of dentists.

peter3hg

justme111 wrote: »

Those who would get 43k pension are in a minority and/or they exist in theory only; they would have to start dentistry at 25 and continue till 65 grossing about 80 k per year, all NHS.

Don't forget that the value is revalued at 1.5% above CPI inflation each year so the early years are worth a lot more come retirement than just a 54th of the original salary.

stoozie1

Thanks for the responses, as these were aimed at me, without wanting to detail the thread, yes @ray singh-blue i am sure

OHs 1995 scheme is £9650 annual plus £28950 lump sum, and by the time he is no longer able to contribute to the nhs scheme his 2015 annual benefit will be 14k max in today's money.

So yep, plenty of headroom for a sipp before hitting the LTA.

Thanks for checking though.

brook2jack

Private dentists earn around 5% more than mostly NHS dentists. The overheads are much,much larger and a lot fewer patients are seen each day.

The only way to earn a large amount in dentistry is to buy into a practice , but the economics of this means fewer and fewer are able to do this. 18% of dentists are practice owners and this figure is dropping each year.

The figures quoted here are recognisable and include practice owners and NHS and private work https://www.smarterwebcompany.co.uk/dentalrecruitnetwork2-co-uk/_img/Copy%20of%20Dental%20Salary%20Survey%202016.pdf

A colleague who places implants spent over £250,000 in training and adapting a surgery to place implants. He has recently spent £80,000 on a ct scanner and just to buy the "spanners" and bits and bobs to place just one type of implant system costs over £12,000. The cost of his annual indemnity insurance (malpractice) is over £17000 a year compared to a general dentist at £5000 a year. Dentistry is very expensive to provide , the overheads are huge , dental inflation is at 10% a year and has been for years. There is not the profit margin in dentistry people think there is.


Sorry replying to a message that's disappeared. Left reply on as an indication of costs and dental earnings.