Ill health retirement - really confused!

Manxman_in_exile

naynay wrote: »

Hi Manxman,

I will leave the pension company to decide whether I can work. My doctors say 'no' but on days when I feel OK'ish I hate the fact that I may not work again.

Today I contacted my employers and they have told me today that they need to apply for IHR for me. My pension company tells me this isn't the case but on telling my line manager this, he said the pension company have told me wrong and he would need my medical notes asap to send to the pension company. Unfortunately my union rep is not around until later in the week.

Have you gone through this process MM in exil?

No personal experience at all. In over 25 years in the NHS I can't recall anyone retiring on ill health except those who were so ill that they were physically completely incapable of continuing to work.


I'm aware that each LA scheme is a separate scheme (ie there is no single national scheme as with the NHS) but isn't your scheme actually managed and administered by your employer (ie the LA)? So there is no separate pension "company"? But I may well be mistaken about that.


The point I'm trying to make (perhaps badly) is that you can't be the first person to go through this process and I would have thought the LA would have clearly defined procedures to deal with this sort of application. eg the pension scheme may be part of the LA but is separated from it by a "Chinese wall".


Maybe your manager is unaware of what the correct procedure to follow is. (I would have thought your pension scheme would have been better informed then your manager about this).


I don't remember but have you asked Human Resources? They must know what the correct procedure is.(*)


If your union rep is not available at the moment, can't you find another one at work, or is your rep the only one? If so I'd be 'phoning their Regional Office. Where they will probably have more expertise than a local rep anyway


(*) Mind you, having said that, your manager must surely have already sought HR advice about this so should know what they're doing..maybe

Manxman_in_exile

LemonSocks wrote: »

Can you not ask your manager the address to send your medical information to OH/ the pension company directly?

I'm thinking the manager either doesn't know what the procedure should be or doesn't want the OP to do this

Manxman_in_exile

Just one last point.


You keep referring to the "pension company" and your "employer" (the LA) as if they were separate entities.


Are you sure they aren't the same? (I'm thinking of my earlier post but I admit that I have no knowledge of the relationship between each LA and its own pension scheme. I thought that each scheme "belonged" to and was managed and staffed by the LA but maybe each is entirely separate)

hyubh

naynay wrote: »

I will leave the pension company to decide whether I can work.

That's not how it works. In the LGPS, it is expressly the employer's decision to grant an ill health retirement, and if so, at what tier (for the latter, see https://lgpsmember.org/tol/thinking-leaving-illhealth.php). Even where the employer is the 'administering authority' of the pension fund and pensions admin is in-house, I would not expect the pensions section to be making an HR decision.

That said, the employer has to follow due process. While they must be guided by the report of an independent registered medical practitioner, being selective in what you give may run the risk that evidence in your favour isn't made clear. Also, keep in mind that the normal situation is for LGPS employers to be adverse to granting ill health retirements given the potential impact on their future employer rate.

hyubh

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

I thought that each scheme "belonged" to and was managed and staffed by the LA but maybe each is entirely separate

LGPS funds are mostly organised at the county level, so district councils and the like will participate in the county council's pension fund. If the old county council has been broken into several unitary authorities, then one of the latter will have inherited the role of 'administering authority' and all stay participating employers of the same fund. In either case, with the odd exception, each LGPS fund is a multi-employer pension scheme, even if the largest (or at least one of the largest) participating employers also runs it.

It's also possible that the 'administering authority' has outsourced pensions admin (most are still in house though). Nevertheless, even if it has, that won't impact ill health decisions due to where the responsibility for the latter lies, i.e. with the employer.

Manxman_in_exile

hyubh wrote: »

That's not how it works. In the LGPS, it is expressly the employer's decision to grant an ill health retirement, and if so, at what tier (for the latter, see https://lgpsmember.org/tol/thinking-leaving-illhealth.php). Even where the employer is the 'administering authority' of the pension fund and pensions admin is in-house, I would not expect the pensions section to be making an HR decision.

That said, the employer has to follow due process. While they must be guided by the report of an independent registered medical practitioner, being selective in what you give may run the risk that evidence in your favour isn't made clear. Also, keep in mind that the normal situation is for LGPS employers to be adverse to granting ill health retirements given the potential impact on their future employer rate.

Thank you.


I wonder if the OP has become over-concerned because in their mind they are equating their "employer" (the LA) with their line managers and colleagues. I presume the person (or persons) who has to make the decision won't know the OP from Adam.

Manxman_in_exile

hyubh wrote: »

LGPS funds are mostly organised at the county level, so district councils and the like will participate in the county council's pension fund. If the old county council has been broken into several unitary authorities, then one of the latter will have inherited the role of 'administering authority' and all stay participating employers of the same fund. In either case, with the odd exception, each LGPS fund is a multi-employer pension scheme, even if the largest (or at least one of the largest) participating employers also runs it.

It's also possible that the 'administering authority' has outsourced pensions admin (most are still in house though). Nevertheless, even if it has, that won't impact ill health decisions due to where the responsibility for the latter lies, i.e. with the employer.

Ah. That's interesting.

chanie

LemonSocks wrote: »

Tier 1 would only be granted if there is no reasonable prospect of being capable of undertaking any gainful employment before retirement age.


Considering that the OP has stated that there is another job he could do then no, he wouldn't qualify for IHR under the LA pension scheme.

I thought the same thing.

I'm confused as to who made the decision to explore IHR with you OP. I wouldn't put in an IHR application for an employee without Occupational Health making an assessment about whether the employee potentially meets the criteria. Yes, the GP May support the application as may the OPs line manager, but it isn't their decision.

Op, I'd recommend speaking directly with HR and finding out what is going on, as it sounds like someone has jumped the gun or there is a lack f communication.

naynay

I will go back and read and I suspect ask lots more questions on what every one has written. I thank you all for your time as it is really appreciated.

Going back to February -To explain I spoke with the OH after I was referred to them by my employers who told my company that he was recommending IHR as did my doctor and consultants when my health was discussed with them. I am contracted to the LA but my emplyers took over from the LA a few years back. My pension company is Teacher Pensions.

My doctors have completed the relevant pension forms for me on my request and have all agreed that I cannot work to retirement age. I am waiting for one last form to be returned. I will then apply to the pension company for IHR. My employers need to also complete a section but not in connection with my medical evidence, but time off etc.

The HR officer and my boss have given me no instruction other than for me to send them my medical notes. The employers were informed by OH that I would be applying for IHR and OH agreed to this based on the medical evidence which he already had.

I am so confused. I have not sent the medical evidence to my line manager nor HR but I have offered to send it to their OH, (although as my doctors have written evidence for my applications I am not sure why the OH needs this now).

As the pension company will be the ones to make a decision as to whether or not I qualify but I really need to know do I need to send medical evidence to my line manager when medical reports have already been written for my application?

Indeed, from what has been written above, should it be the employers asking for and taking the lead on submitting an application for IHR or me?

chanie

OP, I've looked at the teacher pensions website and on 14.2 of the HR User Guide, it states that medical evidence should be sent to OH for review, before submitting it to TP and if OH thinks there isn't enough information, you should be given the opportunity to rectify this.

I can't find the medical evidence form on the TP site, but I suspect that the TP Physician will not only want to have letters of support from your specialists, but also copies of test results etc, so they can make their own assessment. You could play dumb with HR and say that you read that 14.2 of the HR User Guide states that medical info should be sent to OH and you are confused as you were advised to submit to HR and you wanted to clarify the process. It may be that HR are going to send the info to OH. I sometimes ask staff to send certain info to me, only because I can keep track of what's going on and I can chase people up because I will know when I've done certain things. If someone wanted to send me medical info, I'd tell them to put it in a sealed envelope with a covering note, so I'd know not to open it.

I'm only familiar with the Civil Service Pension Scheme and our applicants aren't required to submit medical evidence with the application, except for OH records, which get sent to me in a sealed envelope. Civil Service pensions will then write to specialists directly. When applicants have submitted their own medical evidence the outcome had been much quicker. I think the TP way is much mire efficient.

In response to your final comment, yes, HR and OH need to be involved as these types of schemes do expect employers to bear the brunt of the administration. I do sometimes feel like I'm passing messages between pensions and staff and it would be quicker for them both to talk directly, but unfortunately, that isn't the way it works.