Recorded conversation leading to gross misconduct accusation

foolofbeans

A colleague has been told he has to attend a meeting to discuss a gross misconduct accusation and some queries have arisen.
They were first made aware of an issue when the area manager and associate met them at what was supposed to be a monthly meeting and told them about a third party complaint. Some accusations were made and notes were taken and the colleague has been given a copy of what was supposedly said (they disagree that they answered some questions in the way the notes say they did).
Information has now been given to them such as a copy of the third party complaint and information from the third party about a conversation they recorded without the colleagues knowledge.
1. Can the area manager use the initial meeting questioning and answers against the colleague as, at that point, they were not informed prior that it was an investigation about misconduct and therefore had no opportunity to request an associate to attend on their behalf and take notes.
2. Can the recorded conversation be used in the misconduct investigation as the colleague has not yet heard or seen a transcript yet but it has apparently been circulated to other staff.
3. Should all information be provided to the colleague before the gross misconduct meeting? There are some gaps in the information given and it is clear that conversations between the third party and area manager were going on but nobody knows what was discussed.
Any info gratefully received.

Undervalued

foolofbeans wrote: »

A colleague has been told he has to attend a meeting to discuss a gross misconduct accusation and some queries have arisen.
They were first made aware of an issue when the area manager and associate met them at what was supposed to be a monthly meeting and told them about a third party complaint. Some accusations were made and notes were taken and the colleague has been given a copy of what was supposedly said (they disagree that they answered some questions in the way the notes say they did).
Information has now been given to them such as a copy of the third party complaint and information from the third party about a conversation they recorded without the colleagues knowledge.
1. Can the area manager use the initial meeting questioning and answers against the colleague as, at that point, they were not informed prior that it was an investigation about misconduct and therefore had no opportunity to request an associate to attend on their behalf and take notes.
2. Can the recorded conversation be used in the misconduct investigation as the colleague has not yet heard or seen a transcript yet but it has apparently been circulated to other staff.
3. Should all information be provided to the colleague before the gross misconduct meeting? There are some gaps in the information given and it is clear that conversations between the third party and area manager were going on but nobody knows what was discussed.
Any info gratefully received.

There are no hard and fast answers to your three questions. The employer needs to conduct a fair process (within reason). The easiest way to do this is to follow the ACAS guidelines but there are no longer statutory procedures that must be followed.

To dismiss fairly in law the employer must have a reasonable belief that the misconduct took place and that it was serious enough that a reasonable employer might consider dismissal.

As I said in another thread this morning, it is not a court of law with hard and fast rules of evidence. Nor is proof needed beyond a reasonable doubt.

Having said all that my answers would be yes, yes and yes. However if they act differently it doesn't necessarily make any resulting dismissal unfair.

Andy_L

How long has your "colleague" worked there?

Less than 2 years then it doesn't really matter as they have, effectively, no rights unless the dismissal is related to sex/race/religion type stuff or, IIRC, exercising statutory rights under H&S, TU membership or whistleblowing

Undervalued

foolofbeans wrote: »

Information has now been given to them such as a copy of the third party complaint and information from the third party about a conversation they recorded without the colleagues knowledge.

Just to add.....

The secret recording could raise some issues. Whilst it is not illegal to secretly record a conversation you are party to, there can be certain breach of privacy issues if that recording is then played to a third party.

The law on this is complex and evolving and could well be expensive to pursue. If they were to lose their job as a result of such a recording they might have a claim agains the person who made it. As I say, a complex area and if it simply proves that the employee acted improperly then denied something which the recording proved to be true they may not get very far!

xapprenticex

Its amazing how many people come here on their 'friend/colleagues' behalf and happen to know allll the details ;););););););););););););););););););););););););););)

Masomnia

foolofbeans wrote: »

A colleague has been told he has to attend a meeting to discuss a gross misconduct accusation and some queries have arisen.
They were first made aware of an issue when the area manager and associate met them at what was supposed to be a monthly meeting and told them about a third party complaint. Some accusations were made and notes were taken and the colleague has been given a copy of what was supposedly said they disagree that they answered some questions in the way the notes say they did).
Information has now been given to them such as a copy of the third party complaint and information from the third party about a conversation they recorded without the colleagues knowledge.
1. Can the area manager use the initial meeting questioning and answers against the colleague as, at that point, they were not informed prior that it was an investigation about misconduct and therefore had no opportunity to request an associate to attend on their behalf and take notes.
2. Can the recorded conversation be used in the misconduct investigation as the colleague has not yet heard or seen a transcript yet but it has apparently been circulated to other staff.
3. Should all information be provided to the colleague before the gross misconduct meeting? There are some gaps in the information given and it is clear that conversations between the third party and area manager were going on but nobody knows what was discussed.
Any info gratefully received.

1. Yes, certainly. It might not be best practice but there's no wrongdoing.

2. Yes. Although really they should be given the opportunity to hear it and respond to it if it will be used against them.

3. Depends what you mean by 'all information', but in general yes they should know what will be considered in the hearing.

If your colleague disputes what came out of the investigation then the hearing is their opportunity to put this across.

foolofbeans

Thank you for your responses even if they weren't the news we hoped for!

xapprenticex wrote: »

Its amazing how many people come here on their 'friend/colleagues' behalf and happen to know allll the details ;););););););););););););););););););););););););););)

Amazing....or true? I wouldn't be concerned about saying it was me that had the issue if it was me but I wanted people to know that it wasn't me and therefore I may not know ALL the info. Hopefully I know (and gave) enough pertinent information to get an informed response.
My colleague is the one with the issue and I had offered to be there at the grievance meeting so wanted to be able to assist in a practical way, such as relaying information I had gleaned.

foolofbeans

Andy_L wrote: »

How long has your "colleague" worked there?
Less than 2 years then it doesn't really matter as they have, effectively, no rights unless the dismissal is related to sex/race/religion type stuff or, IIRC, exercising statutory rights under H&S, TU membership or whistleblowing

Sorry, I should have stated that they have worked there for 7 years with exemplary appraisals throughout.

stuart30

xapprenticex wrote: »

Its amazing how many people come here on their 'friend/colleagues' behalf and happen to know allll the details ;););););););););););););););););););););););););););)

Some people (normally those with sad boring lives aka No neck wonders) just want to see something that isn't there.


Quite sad really.:(