The future of fuel: will today be Britain's first coal free day since the Ind Rev?

vivatifosi

I thought this made an interesting alternative to Brexit/IndyRef:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/apr/21/britain-set-for-first-coal-free-day-since-the-industrial-revolution?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4433318/Britain-set-coal-free-day-250-YEARS.html

Britain has been coal-free in power plants on and off since last spring, but today could be the first 24 hour period. Coal accounted for 6% of power generation last year, compared to 23% in 2015.

That's the first 24 hour period without coal used in power generation since the Industrial Revolution.

Thrugelmir

Still leaves the issue of where sufficient power will be generated from in the future unanswered.

vivatifosi

Completely agree. My 2p worth is that we need multiple inputs, not to rely on just a couple. This is for geopolitical reasons as much as anything.

GreatApe

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Still leaves the issue of where sufficient power will be generated from in the future unanswered.

Many countries solar PV + Batteries could get to 50% or higher

UK should have gone nuclear in the 1970s-1980s like France did but too many coal miners in the uk would have been !!!!ed off so that did not happen.

Just 6 nuclear sites would have been sufficient for 75% of UK electric to be nuclear.
Probably not a bad idea today but the politics and small number of units will make it expensive.

UK should just stick with what it has, any retired coal and nuke plants should be replaced by CCGTs. If offshore wind gets cheaper then deploy 60GW of those.

michaels

A bit more detail.
http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

Solar plus storage is already 'disrupting' in Australia and parts of the US, no doubt it has the scope to do so in countries like Spain where Solar PV has been virtually banned to protect the incumbent generators/network operator.

Even in France they are looking to Solar rather than lots of new nuke....

davomcdave

michaels wrote: »

A bit more detail.
http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

Solar plus storage is already 'disrupting' in Australia and parts of the US, no doubt it has the scope to do so in countries like Spain where Solar PV has been virtually banned to protect the incumbent generators/network operator.

Even in France they are looking to Solar rather than lots of new nuke....

There are twin drivers of solar in Australia.

Firstly there is an unusual electricity market in Australia with privatised monopolies or duopolies that have a pricing structure that effectively guarantees a gross return on equity. That means the more money the power company puts into infrastructure the more it gets to charge.

As a result Australian electricity is hugely expensive. Rural Aussies get great power reliability but at a massive cost to the majority.

Second is that Australians like to be self-sufficient, there is a utility gained from not relying on the state or a big corporation. As a result Aussies will put in solar as an end in itself rather than because its cheaper than coal.

My view is that in 20-30 years renewable energy will be almost entirely how we power the planet because its the cheapest way to do it.

fatbeetle

The other factor is, of course, that we actually have some sun down here in Aus!!

wotsthat

Exciting stuff!

Shows the speed of progress. 70 years ago I doubt many would be able to comprehend the size of today's electricity requirements let alone that generating it could be done without coal.

Although energy efficiency keeps on improving demand will surely rise. The tax changes for cars (particularly company cars) are going to provide a huge shove towards electric vehicles. It seems almost certain diesel is on the way out as a fuel and I wouldn't be surprised if we see the last petrol car produced in the next 4 - 5 years. Although the tax benefits of electric/ hybrid cars will, of course, be temporary they're just too large to ignore. My next company car will be a BMW PHEV.

Tesla have already developed an electric truck. There's no doubt now that the future is electric the only question is where that electricity is going to come from and is a no-coal target of 2025 too ambitious.

GreatApe

Self drive technology is the key to many things.

For EVs with self drive they don't need to be large in number to take a lot of market share.

In the UK there are 32 million human cars and they do on average 7,900 miles a year

With a fleet of 1 million self drive EVs doing 130,000 miles a year it would be possible to replace half of all oil miles with electric miles.

We we don't need to replace half the 32 million cars we just need self drive technology + about 1 million EVs

The car companies will also change from building cars designed for 10 years and 100,000 miles used just 1.5h a day to cars designed for 5 years and 500,000 miles used for 15h a day. The capital cost becomes less important per mile while the running costs become more important per mile. Favouring self drive EVs over self drive diesels/petrols

A_Medium_Size_Jock

It's about time we could have a coal-free power day TBH; it is great news.

Solar and wind are okay but we would need far more of each that we already have - and the feeling amongst some is that what we have so far is intrusive enough.

Nuclear is an option but IMHO what turns some public opinion against that idea is not what it is, but who would build it & even run it.
Which has lead to potentially huge costs too.
We have gone (rapidly) from a leading nation in the technology of nuclear power to a "has-been", reliant upon the Chinese and the French potentially to do our nuclear work.
Crazy, IMHO - as well as potentially dangerous.

Still, I suppose that's what happens when idealists like Corbyn & the CND begin to influence thinking even amongst just some.

We need to look ahead and develop what potential we have, like tidal power and blue-green algae as well as have an intermediate plan.
That being the problem - what exactly do we do in the meantime before new technologies are able to supply what power we need?

antrobus

GreatApe wrote: »

Self drive technology is the key to many things.

For EVs with self drive they don't need to be large in number to take a lot of market share.

In the UK there are 32 million human cars and they do on average 7,900 miles a year

With a fleet of 1 million self drive EVs doing 130,000 miles a year it would be possible to replace half of all oil miles with electric miles.

You mean taxis.:)

GreatApe wrote: »

...We we don't need to replace half the 32 million cars we just need self drive technology + about 1 million EVs...

Just because it's arithmetically possible, doesn't mean to say it's actually possible.

Any kind of transport is subject to peak demand. There is a reason why the No58 bus is packed at 8.00am, but only carries six OAPs clutching their bus passes at 11.00 am.:)