Funeral Attendance/Work

Undervalued

Sauasage_Roll wrote: »

Actually Undervalued Your right is to 28 days leave a year to be taken at the employer's discretion.
not quite right im afraid.

Its 5.6weeks which does normally equate to 28 days but thats based on assumptions.

The law does not state 28 days it states 5.6 weeks,ive just had this same issue with my old employer.

What assumptions exactly for a full time employee? Obviously it is pro rata for somebody part time.

I struggle to see how you make it add up to anything different.

sevva888

The lack of empathy in this thread from some people towards the OP is appalling.

Sauasage_Roll

Undervalued wrote: »

What assumptions exactly for a full time employee? Obviously it is pro rata for somebody part time.

I struggle to see how you make it add up to anything different.

Whats obvious to you might not be to someone else...the understanding of Holidays can be misunderstood quite easily.


Assumed the person was working 5 days a week..i might have missed them saying they worked 5 days a week.

Unless stated they were then the assumption is they work 5 days,if they dont then 28 days doesnt apply.

Lots of people assume its 28 days when its 5.6 weeks...or if hourly etc can be worked out on 12.07% and so forth.

Not nit picking..my previous employer just paid out a fair sum as he "assumed" and now a lot of people will be knocking on his door wanting back holiday hours.

Sauasage_Roll

paddedjohn wrote: »

28 days is the stat min for someone working 5 or more days a week, bit finicky nit picking

Sorry did the OP state they worked 5 days a week...if so i must borrow some glasses as i missed that.

If they didnt state they worked 5 days a week then we have assumed they have...so best to clarify dont you think.

Sauasage_Roll

Hbeard wrote: »

Hello MSE Forum,

I come once again to ask advice from you all.

My manager recently passed away, only 54 - far too young!

The next manager in line who I now report to (lets call him Super Cuddly Uniformed Man) did not tell me of my managers passing, I had to find out from a colleague.

His funeral is on Monday at 11am. S.C.U.M, asked if myself or my colleague would like to attend the funeral. We both indicated that we would. This happened a few weeks ago.

Today, my manager contacted my colleague to ask if he still wants to attend, my colleague declined. I was not contacted and asked the same. When I directly emailed and asked, I was told it wouldn't be possible as we are both required to be at work on Monday. If this is the case, why was my colleague contacted today and asked if he still wanted to go?

What I want to know good people of MSE, is do I have any options here regarding complaints via my companies HR Department. Its no secret that SCUM does not like me and has tried to have me fired on numerous occasions, my old manager prevented this from happening. Currently, I am doing my old managers job (the 4th time I have been in this position with this company) and we are not being told if there any plans to replace him. I am the next logical choice, but will not be offered the job because of SCUM's issues with me. I have other small examples of favouritism, disrespect etc from SCUM, but nothing particularly concrete.

I am wondering if I have an option to be either reassigned to a different department, or have the manager changed due to his obvious personal issues with me.

Any info is appreciated, thanks for taking the time to read my post!

Id imagine if you had a good solid working relationship with your manager then id have thought his or her partner would appreciate a member of the firm to show respect and support in attending the funeral.

Obviously thats assuming its not a small family only type funeral...ive always appreciate the show of support when a family member has passed.

And give the age which agree is far to young then id certainly mention your concerns to HR and if not enough time before funeral do it after.

ACG

You seem to be getting a rough ride on this forum.
Is the company big enough to move you under a different manager? If so you could put in a grievance against them. The fact that your boss asked your colleague and not you about the funeral for me would be enough to discipline the manager and/or move you - I say that as an employer albeit on a small scale.

I remember when I worked for a bank some nut job put in a complaint against a manager and she was moved, she did the same about another manager and was moved again. Then when she was not given a managers job after interviewing for it she put in a grievance against them.

If there is scope to move you, then I would request it. It could be worth trying to set him up somehow in order to out him but I have no idea how you would do it.

Maybe get some evidence of this funeral issue, the previous holiday sbeing cancelled last minute (whilst it is allowed it is poor form) and if you are able to prove the workload is being shaerd unequally it may help back up a grievance.

Failing that, its tricky as I do not like people getting one over on me but at the same time you can not work somewhere that you are going to get dumped on all the time.

Hbeard

Undervalued wrote: »

Sorry but your editing hasn't helped one bit. You may have every justification to be frustrated but it is crazy to risk making a bad situation worse by handing them ammunition on a plate.

If his behaviour is actually unlawful then log it carefully and raise a grievance through the proper channels.

I have to say though that nothing in your second post actually comes over as unlawful. Provided you are actually allowed to take your statutory holiday (28 days) at some point that is all the law requires. If you could show that say, women were allowed to book holiday when they like but men could only take their's when the company says, that would be unlawful. But if say, two white heterosexual men get the same amount of holiday but one is allowed far more choice as to when he can take it, that is not in itself unlawful. It could just be that the firm values his services more and rewards him in that way.

Pick your battles carefully.

I take your point and its very fairly made, but its inconsequential now anyway. Its now only a matter of time before I'm let go, he'll just be looking for a loophole to use to oust me from my position, if its this, then so be it. He hasn't done anything unlawful, he's not that stupid, he's just very very bad at his job.

Malthusian wrote: »

You can leave. You said that you had applied for internal vacancies; that suggests you haven't applied for any external vacancies, which suggests your position isn't intolerable.

You said that your other manager had tried to get you fired on numerous occasions and had only been prevented by the late manager; since you are no longer under his protection, presumably you need to be looking at other options now anyway.

I don't know what you mean by "today's work environment", it has never been illegal for a manager to be an !!!!!!, and employees have more protection than they ever did from abusive managers. Partly due to modern employment rights but mostly due to freedom of movement.

I have applied for numerous other roles, even been successful with one or 2, but at those times it didn't make a lot of sense financially to leave. My manager only passed recently and I had planned on trying to have a meeting with the Manager who is causing me the problems to just level with him and try to create a better working relationship, he has made it clear that this is not an option.

The real frustration comes from the fact that I am good at my job and the majority of staff I work with on a regular basis are aware of this and have been very supportive of not only my continued employment but my succession to the managers role. The personal issue's that aforementioned Manager has means that it will never be an option.

Sauasage_Roll wrote: »

Id imagine if you had a good solid working relationship with your manager then id have thought his or her partner would appreciate a member of the firm to show respect and support in attending the funeral.

Obviously thats assuming its not a small family only type funeral...ive always appreciate the show of support when a family member has passed.

And give the age which agree is far to young then id certainly mention your concerns to HR and if not enough time before funeral do it after.

I had a great working relationship with him, he was a very good manager and I learned a lot from him in a short space of time. I was signed off last year with a Hernia and the day after I returned to work, he was signed off with a heart condition, one that would eventually take his life. I never actually got to see him again after my Hernia Op and that still bothers me. Not being allowed to go to his funeral was a very deliberate act, one that was designed to upset and cause stress, I believe that 100%.

ACG wrote: »

You seem to be getting a rough ride on this forum.
Is the company big enough to move you under a different manager? If so you could put in a grievance against them. The fact that your boss asked your colleague and not you about the funeral for me would be enough to discipline the manager and/or move you - I say that as an employer albeit on a small scale.

I remember when I worked for a bank some nut job put in a complaint against a manager and she was moved, she did the same about another manager and was moved again. Then when she was not given a managers job after interviewing for it she put in a grievance against them.

If there is scope to move you, then I would request it. It could be worth trying to set him up somehow in order to out him but I have no idea how you would do it.

Maybe get some evidence of this funeral issue, the previous holiday sbeing cancelled last minute (whilst it is allowed it is poor form) and if you are able to prove the workload is being shaerd unequally it may help back up a grievance.

Failing that, its tricky as I do not like people getting one over on me but at the same time you can not work somewhere that you are going to get dumped on all the time.

Its par for the course with the anonymous nature of the internet

There's some definite wisdom in what you're suggesting but unfortunately the structure of the company I work for wont allow me to do as you suggest. The staff who manage the contract I work on are all from other parts of the business and have zero interest in developing the staff on this contract, I am not the only person to be a victim of this sadly. This means I have no one I can report to above my manager who will do anything to assist me. I have definite evidence of unprofessional conduct and poor management, plus the testimonials of a number of colleagues who all agree that the business with my managers funeral was diabolical, but sadly as others have pointed out, nothing that's legally binding or unlawful.

To be clear, the people who DID attend my managers funeral were nearly all staff from upper management who had never actually worked with him, including the manager I have issues with. I was not allowed to attend as both myself and my colleague were required to be at work, despite there being nothing for us to do because almost all the rest of the staff we work with were at the Funeral. Its bogus and its unprofessional and highlights exactly the kind of creature he is.

Thanks to all who have provided constructive solutions/ideas. Life's a !!!!! sometimes and you just got to roll with the punches.

silvercar

No harm in writing to the family to express your condolences, you could say in the letter that you would have liked to attend the funeral but work wouldn't give you the time off. Even suggest you would like to meet up with the family to share personal memories.

Mersey_2

I'm frankly amazed by some of the responses on here.


Whilst it's true that there is no automatic ie statutory right to paid leave to attend a funeral, most employers do offer either a contractual right (usually for family members, etc) - or unpaid leave for neighbours and close friends.


Check the staff handbook for compassionate leave and so on.


I'm also aware of a Tribunal decision where the discrimination included where one of the elements was that a manager had allowed one team member to attend a funeral but not another.


I don't know the size of the firm, but a polite email to HR or a Director should at least mean you know for certain. I'd be amazed if they refuse to allow even unpaid leave to attend a former work colleague's funeral.


Indeed where this happened recently at my OH's workplace, they closed as a mark of respect and so that they could all attend the funeral [although I realise this won't be the case in al sectors]

agrinnall

Mersey wrote: »

I'm frankly amazed by some of the responses on here.


Whilst it's true that there is no automatic ie statutory right to paid leave to attend a funeral, most employers do offer either a contractual right (usually for family members, etc) - or unpaid leave for neighbours and close friends.


Check the staff handbook for compassionate leave and so on.


I'm also aware of a Tribunal decision where the discrimination included where one of the elements was that a manager had allowed one team member to attend a funeral but not another.


I don't know the size of the firm, but a polite email to HR or a Director should at least mean you know for certain. I'd be amazed if they refuse to allow even unpaid leave to attend a former work colleague's funeral.


Indeed where this happened recently at my OH's workplace, they closed as a mark of respect and so that they could all attend the funeral [although I realise this won't be the case in al sectors]

The funeral has already happened so this is moot for this particular case.