Home Ownership at Lowest Level for 30 Years

ukcarper

ruperts wrote: »

Most house shares don't allow couples and if they do it's no cheaper than renting a bottom-end flat so most will go for the latter. The figures I gave are for a couple sharing a flat.


You won't get one iPhone never mind two with my essential communications budget. That includes for a basic internet connection (no tv package) and a basic mobile phone each, both of which are essential items.


Even if they go for the £80k house they are looking at having to save £8k as a realistic bare minimum deposit and even that would take a good 166 years at £4 per month.

£1500 a month after rent I could survive on half that for a year. £750 X 12 = £9k

Cakeguts

ruperts wrote: »

They're nice. So now they just need to save £28k for a deposit. Don't forget you're quoting average wages across all age groups while we're realistically looking at younger people here who, even if they earn the average for their age group, actually earn about 15% less than the overall average. So all things considered they might be looking at a joint take home of around £2k per month with typical expenses as follows.


Rent on a bottom end one bed flat - £500 per month
Council Tax - £90 per month
Electricity, Gas and Water - £120 per month
Essential communication tools, Internet and phones - £70 per month
One car purchased, maintained and fueled - £300 per month
One public transport season ticket - £100 per month
Basic food rations - £350 per month
Essential items, toiletries, clothes etc - £150 per month
Health related activities, sports club, gym etc - £70 per month
The bare minimum social life required to avoid mental health issues - £180 per month
One solitary weeks holiday at a bargain basement £400 each = £66 per month


Total = £1,996 per month.


So they'll be able to save a whacking £4 per month towards their £28k target and should achieve their aim in roughly in 583 years. Great stuff.

You figures are stupid. If you use public transport you don't need a car so that saves your imaginary £300. You don't need to pay internet and phones at £70 per month if you are going to spend a lot of time on a social life and going to the gym because you won't have time to use it.

So rent on 1 bed flat £500
Council tax £90
Electricity, Gas, Water £120
Phone £7.50
Season ticket £100
Food £350
Toiletries clothes £50
Social life £70

£1237.50

Saving £762.5 per month towards deposit.

People who are serious about saving for a deposit have to go without something. This has always been the case. It isn't something new. People who want to spend everything they earn are never going to be in a position to buy a house or for that matter afford to run a house after they have bought it.

The trouble is that the entitled generation think that the older generations could afford to buy houses easily. They couldn't. A week's holiday was spent at a relative's house in a different part of the country and then the relative came back to you or people went camping in the UK The older generation that you thought got to buy houses easily couldn't afford a holiday abroad every year because they were either saving to buy a house or they were saving to maintain one. People went without things. People wanting to buy houses now have to do the same.

ruperts

ukcarper wrote: »

£1500 a month after rent I could survive on half that for a year. £750 X 12 = £9k

I think I've been reasonable with my budget. Clearly you can't save significantly on council tax or essential bills. Where would you make £750 worth of savings from the remaining £1,200?

Jack_Johnson_the_acorn

Crashy_Time wrote: »

HB pays your rent though in social housing, and you don`t lose your shirt/home when rates rise or market crashes.

Hahaha if you're on HB you needn't concern yourself with worrying about house prices. Never knew you aspired to live in a council house on HB.

Let's all give up our careers and get ourselves on HB, then if a HPC ever occurs we can delight in the comfort of our rented council house with Crashy.

ruperts

Cakeguts wrote: »

You figures are stupid. If you use public transport you don't need a car so that saves your imaginary £300. You don't need to pay internet and phones at £70 per month if you are going to spend a lot of time on a social life and going to the gym because you won't have time to use it.

So rent on 1 bed flat £500
Council tax £90
Electricity, Gas, Water £120
Phone £7.50
Season ticket £100
Food £350
Toiletries clothes £50
Social life £70

£1237.50

Saving £762.5 per month towards deposit.

People who are serious about saving for a deposit have to go without something. This has always been the case. It isn't something new. People who want to spend everything they earn are never going to be in a position to buy a house or for that matter afford to run a house after they have bought it.

The trouble is that the entitled generation think that the older generations could afford to buy houses easily. They couldn't. A week's holiday was spent at a relative's house in a different part of the country and then the relative came back to you or people went camping in the UK The older generation that you thought got to buy houses easily couldn't afford a holiday abroad every year because they were either saving to buy a house or they were saving to maintain one. People went without things. People wanting to buy houses now have to do the same.

We were taking about a couple so instantly double half of your figures. I've made the reasonable assumption that one partner is able to use public transport to get to work and the other needs a car - more likely in this day and age is that both working partners need a vehicle. You haven't given them an internet connection which is ridiculous because everything is done online these days as you well know. Toiletries and clothes for two people at £50 per month is very cheap, buy cheap buy twice is all you'll get there. Social life £70 again for two people, what is that, a trip to the chip shop every Friday? People need social interaction in order to stay healthy, my budget was very low. Likewise sports/leisure, you've missed that entirely, I gave them a very modest sum to keep themselves healthy.


Your last two paragraphs is just yet another example of the "entitlement" argument that is ignorant to the fact that deposit requirements relative to incomes are higher now than they ever have been. This isn't a debatable point, it's just a fact. It IS much harder to save for a deposit now than it was when you had to do it.

ukcarper

ruperts wrote: »

They're nice. So now they just need to save £28k for a deposit. Don't forget you're quoting average wages across all age groups while we're realistically looking at younger people here who, even if they earn the average for their age group, actually earn about 15% less than the overall average. So all things considered they might be looking at a joint take home of around £2k per month with typical expenses as follows.


Rent on a bottom end one bed flat - £500 per month
Council Tax - £90 per month
Electricity, Gas and Water - £120 per month
Essential communication tools, Internet and phones - £70 per month
One car purchased, maintained and fueled - £300 per month
One public transport season ticket - £100 per month
Basic food rations - £350 per month
Essential items, toiletries, clothes etc - £150 per month
Health related activities, sports club, gym etc - £70 per month
The bare minimum social life required to avoid mental health issues - £180 per month
One solitary weeks holiday at a bargain basement £400 each = £66 per month


Total = £1,996 per month.


So they'll be able to save a whacking £4 per month towards their £28k target and should achieve their aim in roughly in 583 years. Great stuff.

Broadband and phone £20
Electric gas water £20
Basic food £100
Toiletries and cloths £100
Health related activities £70
Social life £100
Holiday £66
Car £100

Total £576 can't comment on transport depends on distance

Remember this is short term so you can save.

Cakeguts

ruperts wrote: »

We were taking about a couple so instantly double half of your figures. I've made the reasonable assumption that one partner is able to use public transport to get to work and the other needs a car - more likely in this day and age is that both working partners need a vehicle. You haven't given them an internet connection which is ridiculous because everything is done online these days as you well know. Toiletries and clothes for two people at £50 per month is very cheap, buy cheap buy twice is all you'll get there. Social life £70 again for two people, what is that, a trip to the chip shop every Friday? People need social interaction in order to stay healthy, my budget was very low. Likewise sports/leisure, you've missed that entirely, I gave them a very modest sum to keep themselves healthy.


Your last two paragraphs is just yet another example of the "entitlement" argument that is ignorant to the fact that deposit requirements relative to incomes are higher now than they ever have been. This isn't a debatable point, it's just a fact. It IS much harder to save for a deposit now than it was when you had to do it.

You don't have to go to the gym to stay healthy. That is just ridiculous. How do you think people stayed fit before there were gyms opened to the public. You can only have a social life if you are not saving for a deposit. If you are saving for a deposit on a house you do what people have always done you have a social life that doesn't involve spending money.

There is no reason why both of them can't use public transport to get to work or buy a really cheap second hand car. Car finance is something that many people still can't afford. A new car is a luxury not a necessity. Who buys new clothes every month?

ukcarper

Cakeguts wrote: »

You don't have to go to the gym to stay healthy. That is just ridiculous. How do you think people stayed fit before there were gyms opened to the public. You can only have a social life if you are not saving for a deposit. If you are saving for a deposit on a house you do what people have always done you have a social life that doesn't involve spending money.

There is no reason why both of them can't use public transport to get to work or buy a really cheap second hand car. Car finance is something that many people still can't afford. A new car is a luxury not a necessity. Who buys new clothes every month?

I don't now what he thinks people done in the past. When we saved for a deposit in 70s I ran an old banger, only socialisation I did was to have a couple of drinks on a Saturday no holidays or gym/sports club. Spending on clothes was at the bare minimum and only toiletries was soap, toothpaste.

lisyloo

Cakeguts wrote: »

There is no reason why both of them can't use public transport to get to work or buy a really cheap second hand car. Car finance is something that many people still can't afford. A new car is a luxury not a necessity. Who buys new clothes every month?

Many people outside London and the SE cannot use public transport to get to work and I don't mean just the stix either.
I use to work in bath which was a city and the public transport is rubbish if you don't work near the train station.

Buying an old banger can be a false economy but I agree you don't a luxury brand or a new car.

I am 48 now and recently I have fully come to appreciate the gains that can be made from saving Long term as my thoughts turn to retirement planning. Let me explain that. Let's say you have a £500k pension you e managed to save over 30 years and you get a reasonable year of 10% returns. That £50k which is about double the median income !!
To me that's quite s staggering but demonstrates what can Be done if you save.

I also do think there needs to be some balance in life. I don't think I will be doing some of my more actively demanding hobbies in my 70s, scuba diving for example. So I am very much of the opinion that if you get the chance to do something you should as none of us know how long we have, either at all or being active.
This is clearly a difficult balance to stive for,
Yes not everything costs money, but some things DO.

What's important is understanding the cost of your decisions.

ruperts

Cakeguts wrote: »

You don't have to go to the gym to stay healthy. That is just ridiculous. How do you think people stayed fit before there were gyms opened to the public. You can only have a social life if you are not saving for a deposit. If you are saving for a deposit on a house you do what people have always done you have a social life that doesn't involve spending money.

There is no reason why both of them can't use public transport to get to work or buy a really cheap second hand car. Car finance is something that many people still can't afford. A new car is a luxury not a necessity. Who buys new clothes every month?

Any sort of leisure activity requires expenditure even if it's as simple as having to buy a pair of shorts. I think my budget was perfectly reasonable.


It might have been ok to cancel your social life temporarily back when it only took 3 or 4 months to raise a deposit. Now it takes a number of years so it just isn't feasible to have no social life for such a significant part of your life. If nothing else that would be very unhealthy.


The obvious reason why public transport might not be an option is that many work places aren't serviced by public transport.


Really cheap 2nd hand cars are a false economy over the time scales now required to raise a deposit. You might get through seven or eight bangers before you've reached your target in which case you'd have been better off for a slightly newer, still 2nd hand car which is what I provided for in my budget.