Home Ownership at Lowest Level for 30 Years

ruperts

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

If we assume you must have a mobile phone.

£10 up front cost from ASDA and a PAYG model would not cost £20 pcm and would keep you in touch with the people you need/want to stay in touch with. It wouldn't be the latest most fashionable model but it would satisfy the requirement.

Broadband can be sourced cheaper than £30 pcm. It doesn't have to be 50Mb/100Mb+ to give you access to do what you require. Plus it'll probably come with landline rental, so do you really need those mobile phones?

£70 pcm for health related activities?? What's wrong with running in the park instead of a treadmill? This is ridiculous, nothing wrong with buying a football and going down the park instead of renting a hall for 5-a-side. If you're spending this amount on fitness you really ought to have a word with yourself.

£180 on social?! Invite your friends around to yours, and they invite you to theirs. Why must you meet up at Starbucks, Costa, etc..? There is no basic need/requirement to go out and spend money in these places to meet with people. A lack of imagination and desire to save money for whatever reason would result in expensive social activity sure, but whose fault would that be? Not the governments.

You're still in "I expect this standard of living as a minimum" territory (clearly entitlement), you can easily cut costs from those figures and still live well. You just won't have the latest phone, the best broadband, the fashionable gym membership so you can cycle on a bike that goes nowhere instead of a real bike, or run going nowhere instead of running around a park or try the latest coffee.

The holiday is a classic case of entitlement. If you really want a house you go without, end of story. Whilst you decorate, you go without. Whilst you furnish, you go without. You cannot have your cake and eat it even if you earn well, and I did when I was saving for, buying, renovating and furnishing my house. The self imposed sanctions soon lift and you're in a better place because of it.

My phone budget was for a budget smartphone, not the latest fashionable model. Yes you can save a few pounds per month if you have a simple old style mobile phone and exclude yourself from normal modern methods of communication such as facebook, WhatsApp etc.


£70 per month on health and fitness is for two people so that's £35 per month. I don't know if yo've ever been in shape, but it requires persistence and even if you aren't a gym member you still get through a surprising amount of sports gear.


Invite your friends round?? Our couple live in a basic one bed flat. I don't know if you've ever been in a basic one bed flat but these are not appropriate for hosting parties. Short of meeting outside on the road in the dark and the rain there needs to be a venue and venues cost money in one way or another.


Even if they go without the ultra-low holiday allowance that only saves them £66 per month. Not taking a single holiday in the 20+ years it will take them to save for a deposit will likely lead to increased stress and some sort of associated cost be it financial or in terms of their health. Again, it was probably easy to sacrifice a holiday back when it was only taking 6-8 weeks to save for a deposit because you'd just defer it for a short while. When it's taking most of your life to save for a deposit it becomes a different story.

silverwhistle

I do have sympathy with those struggling to get on the expensive housing ladder particularly in London and the SE, but strangely I don't seem to have any left for ruperts.

I bought back in 1983 when I was 28. Until then I'd been in various digs, with parents and shared accommodation as I moved around from graduate trainee posts to substantive posts and never rented my own place. I also didn't have a car until I was 28 when I bought an old banger for £100 - I had a cheap, low powered motorbike. No phone or internet in those days, of course. Socialising was a few pints down the pub, or a visit to the folk club or cooking a meal for friends, and eating out or cafes didn't come into it. I played sport for a team and match fees were a lot cheaper than the gym.

After buying the house I made do with cheap second-hand or hand-me-down furniture for many years. I still haven't got round to buying a colour TV!

I had one vice: annual skiing holidays done on the cheap. They probably put my house purchase back a couple of years, and that I'll readily admit.

ruperts

MobileSaver wrote: »

Complete and utter nonsense.



The average take home for a SINGLE person is not far off the £2k per month you stated so to base your argument on £2k a month for a working COUPLE is simply ridiculous.



You feel so entitled to all those things that you cannot even see the hypocrisy and irony in your own words. My friends and I seemed to find plenty of ways to keep in touch, play sports and chill without spending much more than 2p or 10p to make a phone call.

We've already established the average wage figures for our couple who are in their 20's and live in Stoke-on-Trent. The average full time wage is around in Stoke for that age is around £19,500 which after likely student loan and pension contributions nets down to just over £1.2k take home. So even in this ideal scenario where both partners are on good salaries the amount they are still going to stuggle to raise a deposit with 7-8 years. The majority of people aren't in such an ideal scenario.


You and your friends only had to save for a deposit for 4-6 weeks so it didn't matter that you went without for such a short time. Our couple of facing an entire life spent saving for a deposit. Heaven forbid they should have kids because that would throw the entire plan out of the window for good. I guess wanting to reproduce is a symptom of "entitlement" too?

westernpromise

ruperts wrote: »

Average wages don't include unemployed people. When I checked unemployment for Stoke it was around 22% iirc so that just about covers your argument. Average wage stats give you the median of all employed people so the examples I'm using represents people in around the 40th percentile, meaning at least 60% definitely cannot afford to buy without third party assistance which tallies up with what is being observed in the real world.

No, those stats are pre-tax income. What you need to be looking at is the middle of the top 70% of earners, probably x2. That is the middle of the range and broadly those at the top are earning it in London and paying London prices while those at the 70th percentile aren't..

As noted above, if you think working part-time and spending £1,000 a year are legitimate approaches to saving for a house while on minimum wage, you haven't understood how house buying works.

ukcarper

ruperts wrote: »

Average wages don't include unemployed people. When I checked unemployment for Stoke it was around 22% iirc so that just about covers your argument. Average wage stats give you the median of all employed people so the examples I'm using represents people in around the 40th percentile, meaning at least 60% definitely cannot afford to buy without third party assistance which tallies up with what is being observed in the real world.

Lets assume 1 male 1 female in stoke

40% percentile for male full time is £22,864 take home £1,560
40% percentile for female part time is £8,668 take home £716

A total of £2276 so on your figures they can save £280 a month £3,360 after a year and £6,720 after two. No holiday for 2 years another £800 so we are up to £7,520.

Couple of cheaper phones mine is £10 a month another £480.
Cut social spending by half another £90 a month, £2160
£100 of food and £50 of clothes etc another £150 a month, £3,600

A grand total of £13,760 easily achievable.

lisyloo

PAYG is still a thing even if it's seen as uncool, and you don't use it that much.

I use giffgaff which is £5 per month. For that I get 500 texts, 125 mins call time and 100MB per month.
What's wrong with that?


I have a nineteen year old car - I might have to scrap it next month but I've had 5 years about it.


Do you think I give a stuff about people thinking I'm uncool when I have a nice house and reasonable size pension pot?


None of us can have it ALL AT THE SAME TIME. You need to work out what your priorities are. Mine are freedom, choice and security. Flash car is not even on the list.

westernpromise

ruperts wrote: »

Heaven forbid they should have kids because that would throw the entire plan out of the window for good. I guess wanting to reproduce is a symptom of "entitlement" too?

If they can't afford it, yes. Absolutely. There are lots of things I can't afford; I do without.

ukcarper

ruperts wrote: »

My phone budget was for a budget smartphone, not the latest fashionable model. Yes you can save a few pounds per month if you have a simple old style mobile phone and exclude yourself from normal modern methods of communication such as facebook, WhatsApp etc.


£70 per month on health and fitness is for two people so that's £35 per month. I don't know if yo've ever been in shape, but it requires persistence and even if you aren't a gym member you still get through a surprising amount of sports gear.


Invite your friends round?? Our couple live in a basic one bed flat. I don't know if you've ever been in a basic one bed flat but these are not appropriate for hosting parties. Short of meeting outside on the road in the dark and the rain there needs to be a venue and venues cost money in one way or another.


Even if they go without the ultra-low holiday allowance that only saves them £66 per month. Not taking a single holiday in the 20+ years it will take them to save for a deposit will likely lead to increased stress and some sort of associated cost be it financial or in terms of their health. Again, it was probably easy to sacrifice a holiday back when it was only taking 6-8 weeks to save for a deposit because you'd just defer it for a short while. When it's taking most of your life to save for a deposit it becomes a different story.

https://shop.tescomobile.com/pay-monthly/mobile-phones/motorola/moto+e3/tariff?sku=57282

here you are save £12.50 each a month.

ruperts

MobileSaver wrote: »

So in your scenario you don't even have a couple who are both working full-time but they both still want all the niceties of life (mobile, gym, Starbucks, holiday plus, of course, their own home) ... and you wonder why that generation is accused of having a sense of entitlement?!? :rotfl:

The couple earn a combined £28k which is a very generous figure for one full time and one part time worker. Many couples who both work full time are on a combined £28k-ish. They don't want all the niceties, just the bare minimum in terms of social life and health related activities to ensure they stay both mentally and physically healthy.

ruperts

ukcarper wrote: »

Lets assume 1 male 1 female in stoke

40% percentile for male full time is £22,864 take home £1,560
40% percentile for female part time is £8,668 take home £716

A total of £2276 so on your figures they can save £280 a month £3,360 after a year and £6,720 after two. No holiday for 2 years another £800 so we are up to £7,520.

Couple of cheaper phones mine is £10 a month another £480.
Cut social spending by half another £90 a month, £2160
£100 of food and £50 of clothes etc another £150 a month, £3,600

A grand total of £13,760 easily achievable.

You missed the part where you had to adjust those figures for age. Our couple aren't in the peak earning age of around 50, they're in their 20's which means the average for their age group is 15% less than the overall average.