If the Labour Party didn't exist, would anyone today invent it?

westernpromise

AFAICT all Labour is for now is to provide a pretext for envy, by making out that resenting someone else's harder work and greater success is a respectable moral position, rather than a shameful personality flaw.

But to put it another way, what does anyone want done that they need the Labour Party to exist to get done?

stator

The Labour party needs to shift it's focus to the young, screwed over by the baby boomers and other rich nepotistic selfish gits who think they 'earned' their ill gotten gains

Boredatwrork

They came to their inevitable conclusion i'm afraid.

Boredatwrork

stator wrote: »

The Labour party needs to shift it's focus to the young, screwed over by the baby boomers and other rich nepotistic selfish gits who think they 'earned' their ill gotten gains

There are plenty of baby boomers that dont have a pot to P in, this convienent scapegoat is flawed. And i'm pretty sure those who did well, did it to better their personal situation (like anyone does), and not to spite future generations. You talk like it was a conspiracy, its a bit ridiculous.

westernpromise

stator wrote: »

The Labour party needs to shift it's focus to the young, screwed over by the baby boomers and other rich nepotistic selfish gits who think they 'earned' their ill gotten gains

OK, so you want the pretext-for-envy model. But what do you think it should actually do, other than expropriate and immiserate?

Conrad

I think a key shift is taking place whereby hugely more people are now aspirational and though they may be poor today, they value an enterprise friendly landscape whereby they can better themselves.


Look at how many now have little side-lines such as an EBAY trading account.


Look at the shift in this country towards more high end vehicles and SUV's recently reported.


LABOUR - what does it stand for in the public mind? Welfare, hand-outs, Govt and not you the individual being the prime actor in your own life, trendy minority campaigns, the compensation culture (chasing squaddies / sueing the NHS etc), ooman rights cheats charters, defending traveller communities etc etc


They never seem to be throwing energy into the quiet hard working majority. You don't see ooman rights lawyers like Shami Chakrabarty seeking out the old lady on the council estate to champion. No, she gravitates to high profile trendy cases such as Guantanamo inmates. Why would this be, why is she never on YOUR side?


Labour is a vessel for those posh intellectuals wishing to grandstand as some sort of agitator for the glorious revolution.
Most citizens have no time for these drippy luvvies

westernpromise

LABOUR - what does it stand for in the public mind?

Cosying up to the IRA. You forgot that one.

Conrad

Ed Milibands big pitch slogans and narratives read like a collection of desperate attempts to try and grab the national narrative;

Pre-distribution
The squeezed middle
The zero zero economy (!!!!!!!)


The cost of living crisis
Hardworking Britain Better Off
We want a John Lewis economy


We're Britain, we're better than this


The 'one nation' slogan he used in 2013, where's it gone? "A recovery made by the many and built to last"

steampowered

Every developed democracy has a major political party on the left or centre left.

Of course a political party would be developed to fill this space if one did not already exist.

AFAICT all Labour is for now is to provide a pretext for envy

The reason why that is "as far as you can tell" is either because you don't bother to follow politics in this country; or you simply disregard the news. There are hundreds of issues out there that have nothing to do with envy.

But to put it another way, what does anyone want done that they need the Labour Party to exist to get done?

The answer to this question is that people want a better society.

People quite understandably want an NHS that is not in crisis; good schools across the board; an end to people losing nearly all their employment rights through zero hours contracts; reform or a badly broken care system. And I'm sure there are countless other things that people with left wing views care about.

Whether Labour or another party has the best plan for achieving all that is a separate debate.

westernpromise

steampowered wrote: »

Whether Labour or another party has the best plan for achieving all that is a separate debate.

No it's not, it's the whole point of the thread :wall:

michaels

steampowered wrote: »

Every developed democracy has a major political party on the left or centre left.

Of course a political party would be developed to fill this space if one did not already exist.


The reason why that is "as far as you can tell" is either because you don't bother to follow politics in this country; or you simply disregard the news. There are hundreds of issues out there that have nothing to do with envy.


The answer to this question is that people want a better society.

People quite understandably want an NHS that is not in crisis; good schools across the board; an end to people losing nearly all their employment rights through zero hours contracts; reform or a badly broken care system. And I'm sure there are countless other things that people with left wing views care about.

Whether Labour or another party has the best plan for achieving all that is a separate debate.

Surly the issue is the UK does not have a political party of the centre / centre left any more and also does not have a party for right/centre right remainers. Nulabour did occupy this area but no one does now.

I have heard suggestions that centrre left labour (ie most of the MPs) and centre pro-europe tories could make common ground in a new SDP (although obviously not under that name).