Free annuity - A gift or a curse ?

AlwaysOnTheGo

They have been waiting for Probate / Letters of Administration for years and telling me they are unable to proceed without this evidence as a death cert was not enough. I have it in writing. When I did the Letters of administration and rung them they didn't even ask for the paperwork, they said everything had changed and to throw away their letters and wait to receive new ones. I know the unauthorised charge disappeared and so did the need for the Letters of Administration.

Oh and I have received two illustrations today from them

One for £368 pa with a 5% annual increase, the other for £1022 pa no increases. This is even worse that my position 7 years ago at £1500 pa no increases. Both say the plan has no cash in value. I could weep

Oh and the fund was frozen so there are no back payments to be had, just the grand total of £179 interest !

sandsy

I hope you didn't throw away any letters!
Maybe someone who knows more than me could advise but there sounds like a case of maladministration compounded with poor treatment of a vulnerable customer here. And is it normal to freeze the pot in these circumstances?

Surely either the pension is payable from the date of death on the terms that were available then or as protected rights don't exist any more, the pot could be transferred elsewhere.

Whatever the situation, you've been treated very poorly in the circumstances.

jamesd

Those annuity rates appear to be roughly open market rates today, not rates that would reflect any guaranteed benefit. Don't buy them, get professional advice.

That professional advice may also help with the complaint of maladministration that may be merited.

You might want to contact the poster dunstonh who is an IFA and may be able to assist.

AlwaysOnTheGo

Yesterday Ireceived a total 10K in cheques from two other pensions he held with the same company - I will pay them in tomorrow - and another 2.4k from another company pension which I paid into my mortgage the same day. I still have all his financial papers and believe he may have had another pension as well. He was very disorganised.

I may need to do a freedom of information request to Z to get copies of all the old letters I believe I did throw them away about 10 days ago when I received the replacement information.

jamesd

Yes, do try to get them, since they may be required to support a maladministration claim.

One of the standard advantages of money in a pension is that it can be paid out without waiting for probate and without regard for what is in a will. Potential maladministration can apply to those others as well, due to the delay in payment. So keep all of the records!

xylophone

I am surprised that letters of administration/probate was required as this was a protected rights pension with a requirement to pay a pension to a spouse.

Surely all that was required was proof of death?

This

http://www.financialadvice.net/protected_rights_pension/zone/378

appears to back up this position.

On death before the Protected Rights pension is taken by the member, the whole of the Protected Rights fund has to provide a pension income for a surviving spouse or civil partners.

If there is no surviving spouse or partner, the Protected Rights fund can be paid as a lump sum to the estate of the member if it was not being paid as an income before death of the member.

Malthusian

I withdraw what I said about backdated annuity payments. It sounds as if the pension fund has been sitting there and has not been annuitised. Hence why the annuity rate has fallen (annuity rates were higher seven years ago). If this is the case there are no outstanding annuity payments waiting to be made.

On the other hand you may have benefited from fund growth - assuming the fund has not been sitting in cash for the past seven years which would be the worst of both worlds.

You need to take expert advice as a professional will know what to ask Zurich and will be able to get it directly from them. There are too many holes in second hand information.

AlwaysOnTheGo wrote: »

I may need to do a freedom of information request to Z to get copies of all the old letters I believe I did throw them away about 10 days ago when I received the replacement information.

You're probably thinking of a "subject access request" and technically the right to make a subject access request doesn't apply to the deceased. (A freedom of information request is for asking public bodies for information of public interest, like their expenses bills.)

Nonetheless if you are his personal representative you are still entitled to ask they send you all the information they have on their records (it might even be worth asking them to follow the subject access request procedure).

Bear in mind that financial services companies are obliged to keep most data on their records for seven years (although there are certain exceptions which must be retained indefinitely), so be prepared for the possibility that they say they no longer have his old letters.

AlwaysOnTheGo

I've just noticed this on the post from xylophone......

If there is no surviving spouse or partner, the Protected Rights fund can be paid as a lump sum to the estate of the member if it was not being paid as an income before death of the member.

Does this mean that if I was not his wife the money would be paid as a lump sum to the estate of the member as cash ? I asked this question to Z and they told me it would be given to one of my children only as an annuity.

I think I need to contact dunstonh

The advice and support here has been superb. Thank you all. I have been a member of this site for 10 years and until now have been unable to raise the issues here either. Fragile mental health in times of crisis is real and, as I have realised now I feel stronger, gets very little acknowledgement from outside bodies. The corporate focus is on issuing paperwork and waiting on the assumption the recipient can cope. The reality is that when someone is in crisis with unexpected and shocking circumstances around an early death, the grieving, the feeling of being thrown into an empty dark place, caring for children, listening to advice to 'keep a routine' for them, struggling every day to get to the end without too many tears takes all of ones energy and focus. Add to this the immediate loss of income, the struggle to stop the mortgage company repossessing when I couldn't work and the huge lifestyle change we needed to make, I feel proud to still be standing. The minefield of money/pensions was beyond me to deal with and take timely decisions on, particularly alone. It has certainly given me something to think about doing as a local voluntary service / online support group when I retire.