Cheaper to buy a daily than a yearly season ticket. Harlow to Kings X

john57

Is there a restriction in using an Anytime Day Return in the opposite direction first. The emphasis is “no time restrictions on when you can travel”

The definition of an Anytime Day Return is

“Anytime Day Return

Anytime : fully flexible tickets with no time restrictions on when you can travel. Perfect for people who need flexibility

ROUTE OF TICKET ANY PERMITTED - Travel is allowed via any permitted route.”


I travel from Harlow to Kings Cross every day. I have found that a daily Anytime Day Return is cheaper than buying a season ticket

A daily return in the opposite direction from Kings X to Harlow is £18.70 buying an Anytime Day Return

Anytime Day Return Kings X to Harlow =£18.70 x 229 working days = £4282.30

A yearly Season Ticket Harlow to Kings X is £4500

What is to stop me from doing the Harlow to Kings X journey in the morning?

wealdroam

john57 wrote: »

Is there a restriction in using an Anytime Day Return in the opposite direction first. The emphasis is “no time restrictions on when you can travel”

The definition of an Anytime Day Return is

“Anytime Day Return

Anytime : fully flexible tickets with no time restrictions on when you can travel. Perfect for people who need flexibility

ROUTE OF TICKET ANY PERMITTED - Travel is allowed via any permitted route.”


I travel from Harlow to Kings Cross every day. I have found that a daily Anytime Day Return is cheaper than buying a season ticket

A daily return in the opposite direction from Kings X to Harlow is £18.70 buying an Anytime Day Return

Anytime Day Return Kings X to Harlow =£18.70 x 229 working days = £4282.30

A yearly Season Ticket Harlow to Kings X is £4500

What is to stop me from doing the Harlow to Kings X journey in the morning?

Condition 12.3 of The National Rail Conditions of Travel states:

12.3 A return Ticket must be used in the correct sequence (you must use the outward portion of your return Ticket before you use the return portion). The outward portion of a return Ticket is no longer valid for travel once the return portion has been used.

ctbfc

john57 wrote: »

Is there a restriction in using an Anytime Day Return in the opposite direction first. The emphasis is “no time restrictions on when you can travel”

The definition of an Anytime Day Return is

“Anytime Day Return

Anytime : fully flexible tickets with no time restrictions on when you can travel. Perfect for people who need flexibility

ROUTE OF TICKET ANY PERMITTED - Travel is allowed via any permitted route.”


I travel from Harlow to Kings Cross every day. I have found that a daily Anytime Day Return is cheaper than buying a season ticket

A daily return in the opposite direction from Kings X to Harlow is £18.70 buying an Anytime Day Return

Anytime Day Return Kings X to Harlow =£18.70 x 229 working days = £4282.30

A yearly Season Ticket Harlow to Kings X is £4500

What is to stop me from doing the Harlow to Kings X journey in the morning?

In theory the conditions of use: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46544.aspx

The outward part of an Anytime Return ticket is only valid for travel when accompanied by an unused return part of the same ticket.

In practice very little. As long as the train you get from Harlow to London leaves after the first train from London arrives at Harlow or someone inspecting the ticket closely may ask questions.

Shrimply

I don't know London at all, so this might be no help. But it might be possible to get an anytime return for only slightly more from a different station.

For instance, you can only buy day returns between Edinburgh Waverley and Glasgow but you can get a 28 day return for the journey from Edinburgh Slateford to Glasgow for which a permissible journey is Slateford->Waverley->Glasgow.

I'd also say that the ticket barriers here are pretty dumb, it seems you can get through the barriers for the maximum number of times needed for your ticket. They don't seem to care about the direction you are going in or where they've been used previously.

cookie365

ctbfc wrote: »

As long as the train you get from Harlow to London leaves after the first train from London arrives at Harlow or someone inspecting the ticket closely may ask questions.

If the OP is comparing to the price of an annual season ticket, I guess they're going to be commuting. Which usually involves taking early trains. So it won't be long before an inspector does indeed start asking questions.

The time the ticket was printed shows very clearly - so are you suggesting that the OP gets up an hour and a half early, goes to the station, buys their ticket, goes home for a bit, then goes back to the station to get the train to work?

I've never been to Harlow, but last time I bought a Greater Anglia ticket on a machine you couldn't select a different departure station. So the OP will have to buy from the ticket office. How many times before the staff get suspicious? Twice? Three times? More than 229 times?

So maybe the OP could buy online and collect from a machine? Great, until somebody does start asking questions and has a look at their account, at which point they'll start asking other questions like 'Why do you always go from London to Harlow and back when you live in Harlow?' and 'When I download this handy complete list of previous fraudulent transactions for the prosecution team, would they prefer it in xlsx or csv format?'

So let's imagine the OP has a 99% success rate at fooling the ticket inspectors. They'll only get caught twice in one year! Fines and admin expense of getting caught twice should more or less eat up any saving.

agrinnall

cookie365 wrote: »

So let's imagine the OP has a 99% success rate at fooling the ticket inspectors. They'll only get caught twice in one year! Fines and admin expense of getting caught twice should more or less eat up any saving.

Although once the OP has lost their job due to fraudulent activity they won't need to travel from Harlow to London at all, so that'll be an extra saving!

Gravedigger

Not forgetting that the season ticket can be used on days not classed as working days.

john57

agrinnall wrote: »

Although once the OP has lost their job due to fraudulent activity they won't need to travel from Harlow to London at all, so that'll be an extra saving!

Thank you all for your replies.

I was not suggesting carrying out a fraudulent activity and this was exactly the reason why I asked the question. If it was legal then I would have done it but now knowing its not then I wont.

Whats ironic is that it is cheaper to do the journey at the same time of day cheaper in opposing directions.

I am paying for and using two journeys.

Whats even more crazy is that the journey from Hertford East is further from Kings Cross journey wise than Harlow, uses the same track and the season ticket is £800 a year cheaper.

Who are the real crooks here scamming people every day? The train companies.

It is a total scam.

wealdroam

john57 wrote: »

Whats ironic is that it is cheaper to do the journey at the same time of day cheaper in opposing directions.

Who are the real crooks here scamming people every day? The train companies.

It is a total scam.

During your travels, have you not noticed that there are more people travelling into London in the morning than are travelling in the opposite direction?
Similarly, there are more people travelling out of London in the evening that are travelling in.

It's supply and demand. Higher pricing tends to stifle demand.
Simple business practices - no scam - no crooks.

Anyway, you are not comparing like with like.

The season ticket you mention at £4500 includes a zone 1-6 travelcard. This means that you can travel anywhere in London at no additional cost at anytime throughout the year.

The Anytime Day Return only includes one tube journey from Kings Cross to Tottenham Hale before changing onto the Harlow train and vice versa.

If you don't want the travelcard features in your annual season ticket, get a season ticket to Liverpool Street or Tottenham Hale from Harlow and use pay as you go with Oyster or contactless for the remainder of your journey.

An annual season ticket from Harlow to Liverpool Street is £3496.00.
An annual season ticket from Harlow to Tottenham Hale is £2784.00.

I'll leave you to work out the payg fares, weekly caps, etc. to get to your ultimate destination.

john57

wealdroam wrote: »

It's supply and demand. Higher pricing tends to stifle demand.
Simple business practices - no scam - no crooks.

Anyway, you are not comparing like with like.

The scam and crooks was specificlly aimed at the Hertford East journey. I found this anomaly out when looking for an alternative when the tube strikes were looming.

My reckoning is that the reason for this anomaly is most probably because there is competition from the Hertford North journey where Abellio have matched the cost from another train operator.

yorkie2

john57 wrote: »

The scam and crooks was specificlly aimed at the Hertford East journey. I found this anomaly out when looking for an alternative when the tube strikes were looming.

My reckoning is that the reason for this anomaly is most probably because there is competition from the Hertford North journey where Abellio have matched the cost from another train operator.

The fare from Hertford Stations to London Terminals is priced by Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR).

Abellio Greater Anglia are obliged to accept these tickets on its services, as per their franchise agreement.

Nothing to do with "matching the cost"; AGA have no say in the cost!

There is no "anomaly" and no "scam".

Drive to Hertford, or take a bus there, if that works out cheaper!