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Charlie Mullins of Pimilico Plumbers
Fella
Posts: 7,921 Forumite
As most people know, Charlie Mullins is an outspoken Remainer & bankrolled the successful legal bid to give Parliament Brexit vote.
So I was somewhat surprised to read today of his less successful legal exploits regarding the poor chumps he employs:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/02/10/court-orders-gig-economy-workers-paid-minimum-wage/
"The Court ruled that Pimlico Plumbers' self-employed contractors in fact qualify as workers, meaning they are entitled to employment rights such as sick pay, minimum wage and paid holiday.
Gary Smith, a former employee of the London plumbing company, brought the case, claiming that he should have been entitled to basic employment rights. Mr Smith sued the company after he was dismissed following a heart attack. He said his status was more akin to an employee than contractor and that he should have received benefits such as sick pay.
The Court of Appeal has ruled that because Mr Smith worked a minimum of 40 hours a week, had to wear a company uniform, and drive Pimlico Plumber's vehicles he was a worker. He paid taxes as a self-employed person but only worked for the one company for six years.
Phil Pepper, employment partner at Shakespeare Martineau, said: "In theory, the business model adopted by Pimlico Plumbers offers flexibility to both the employer and employee." But in reality it neglected employee rights. "
Shurely not? As an ardent Remainer few things would be closer to Charlie's heart than employee rights. This is the man who loves the EU, with it's Agency workers directive & it's hatred of zero hours contracts. Let's hear what Charlie has to say on the verdict:
"I am happy this gives some clarity"
Hurrah! so he's now fully on board with worker's rights.
Except......
"We will be looking at the full judgment and there is a good chance we will appeal to the Supreme Court."
Ah, not so much then. And in that case hard to see exactly where the clarity is.
I guess he has at least demonstrated that he's a bit of a Charlie.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/23/tory-donor-charlie-mullins-predicts-theresa-may-quit-within-two-years-brexit#img-1
So I was somewhat surprised to read today of his less successful legal exploits regarding the poor chumps he employs:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/02/10/court-orders-gig-economy-workers-paid-minimum-wage/
"The Court ruled that Pimlico Plumbers' self-employed contractors in fact qualify as workers, meaning they are entitled to employment rights such as sick pay, minimum wage and paid holiday.
Gary Smith, a former employee of the London plumbing company, brought the case, claiming that he should have been entitled to basic employment rights. Mr Smith sued the company after he was dismissed following a heart attack. He said his status was more akin to an employee than contractor and that he should have received benefits such as sick pay.
The Court of Appeal has ruled that because Mr Smith worked a minimum of 40 hours a week, had to wear a company uniform, and drive Pimlico Plumber's vehicles he was a worker. He paid taxes as a self-employed person but only worked for the one company for six years.
Phil Pepper, employment partner at Shakespeare Martineau, said: "In theory, the business model adopted by Pimlico Plumbers offers flexibility to both the employer and employee." But in reality it neglected employee rights. "
Shurely not? As an ardent Remainer few things would be closer to Charlie's heart than employee rights. This is the man who loves the EU, with it's Agency workers directive & it's hatred of zero hours contracts. Let's hear what Charlie has to say on the verdict:
"I am happy this gives some clarity"
Hurrah! so he's now fully on board with worker's rights.
Except......
"We will be looking at the full judgment and there is a good chance we will appeal to the Supreme Court."
Ah, not so much then. And in that case hard to see exactly where the clarity is.
I guess he has at least demonstrated that he's a bit of a Charlie.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/23/tory-donor-charlie-mullins-predicts-theresa-may-quit-within-two-years-brexit#img-1
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Comments
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How did HMRC allow him to trade on this basis?
They are at fault here as well.0 -
In other words lets smear someone because they were a remainer. You could have commented about him being a big tory donor as well.....but the division lines are changing....it's now all about Brexit!As most people know, Charlie Mullins is an outspoken Remainer & bankrolled the successful legal bid to give Parliament Brexit vote.
So I was somewhat surprised to read today of his less successful legal exploits regarding the poor chumps he employs:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/02/10/court-orders-gig-economy-workers-paid-minimum-wage/
"The Court ruled that Pimlico Plumbers' self-employed contractors in fact qualify as workers, meaning they are entitled to employment rights such as sick pay, minimum wage and paid holiday.
Gary Smith, a former employee of the London plumbing company, brought the case, claiming that he should have been entitled to basic employment rights. Mr Smith sued the company after he was dismissed following a heart attack. He said his status was more akin to an employee than contractor and that he should have received benefits such as sick pay.
The Court of Appeal has ruled that because Mr Smith worked a minimum of 40 hours a week, had to wear a company uniform, and drive Pimlico Plumber's vehicles he was a worker. He paid taxes as a self-employed person but only worked for the one company for six years.
Phil Pepper, employment partner at Shakespeare Martineau, said: "In theory, the business model adopted by Pimlico Plumbers offers flexibility to both the employer and employee." But in reality it neglected employee rights. "
Shurely not? As an ardent Remainer few things would be closer to Charlie's heart than employee rights. This is the man who loves the EU, with it's Agency workers directive & it's hatred of zero hours contracts. Let's hear what Charlie has to say on the verdict:
"I am happy this gives some clarity"
Hurrah! so he's now fully on board with worker's rights.
Except......
"We will be looking at the full judgment and there is a good chance we will appeal to the Supreme Court."
Ah, not so much then. And in that case hard to see exactly where the clarity is.
I guess he has at least demonstrated that he's a bit of a Charlie.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/23/tory-donor-charlie-mullins-predicts-theresa-may-quit-within-two-years-brexit#img-10 -
In other words lets smear someone because they were a remainer. You could have commented about him being a big tory donor as well.....but the division lines are changing....it's now all about Brexit!
I think it is relevant in the context of the story that he was so high profile in the EU debate.
As for being smeared having watched him being interviewed today I think he has done that all by himself.0 -
I think it is a bit ridiculous that you are trying to link this to the EU debate. Whatever happened to fairly analysing things on the actual facts o the case?
I watched Charlie's interview on BBC and thought he came across very well. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38929117.
The plumber in question was paid £80,00 a year on the basis he was self-employed and bought all his own materials. If he was paid through PAYE rather than as a self-employed person, his salary would end up being less. All perfectly understandable.0 -
Yes how dare he express a view on the EU when he carries out such oppressive employer practices.....all those zero hour contracts will disappear when the jolly ship Britain leaves the EU. Our workers will be the best treated in the world won't they:rotfl:POPPYOSCAR wrote: »I think it is relevant in the context of the story that he was so high profile in the EU debate.
As for being smeared having watched him being interviewed today I think he has done that all by himself.0 -
steampowered wrote: »I think it is a bit ridiculous that you are trying to link this to the EU debate. Whatever happened to fairly analysing things on the actual facts o the case?
I watched Charlie's interview on BBC and thought he came across very well. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38929117.
The plumber in question was paid £80,00 a year on the basis he was self-employed and bought all his own materials. If he was paid through PAYE rather than as a self-employed person, his salary would end up being less. All perfectly understandable.
So just because he bought his own materials that makes him Self-employed?
He drove a company van, wore a company uniform and only did work for that company.
You can not just decide to be self-employed, there are rules, or supposed to be anyway.0 -
Yes how dare he express a view on the EU when he carries out such oppressive employer practices.....all those zero hour contracts will disappear when the jolly ship Britain leaves the EU. Our workers will be the best treated in the world won't they:rotfl:
He does not 'employ' them as self-employed for their benefit but for his own.
No NI, pension, sick pay etc. to pay out.
And when they have a heart attack and want to work less hours, dump them.0 -
steampowered wrote: »I think it is a bit ridiculous that you are trying to link this to the EU debate. Whatever happened to fairly analysing things on the actual facts o the case?
I watched Charlie's interview on BBC and thought he came across very well. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38929117.
The plumber in question was paid £80,00 a year on the basis he was self-employed and bought all his own materials. If he was paid through PAYE rather than as a self-employed person, his salary would end up being less. All perfectly understandable.
The connection is that his pro-remain stance is at odds with the very non-EU employment practices he uses. I would expect somebody who likes to use their power & influence to try to overturn democracy to at least be consistent in their beliefs.
FWIW I don't think there's anything wrong with the way he treated the plumber, it's his funding of the anti-brexit (let's not pretend that was ever anything other than an attempt to derail brexit) that I find disgraceful. Luckily it backfired, albeit at huge expense to the taxpayer.
Perhaps he's just someone who likes to go to court whenever he doesn't get his own way.0 -
Court judgment here:
https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgments/pimlico-plumbers-v-gary-smith/0 -
POPPYOSCAR wrote: »How did HMRC allow him to trade on this basis?
They are at fault here as well.
The Court found that the guy was not an employee of PP, so there's no problem with him not being PAYE.
Being a 'worker' is a separate category from being employed or self-employed and applies for the purposes of national minimum wage, holiday entitlement and other stuff I can't think of off the top of my head. They found that he counted as a worker, but not an employee.
FWIW I do think the Brexit angle is relevant as Mullins is trying to deny the chap in the case rights that are granted by the EU working time directive!“I could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled.” - P.G. Wodehouse0
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