Advance Train Tickets

tomreaney

Hi there,

This is my first post on here, and the only reason I'm really bothering is because something about the amount I'm spending on train travel has been really getting on my nerves. To give a little background, I'm an 18 year old university student, living in Manchester however my family still live back in Huddersfield. The topic first came up last week amongst my flat mate and I, when he didn't understand why I was saying I cant afford to go do something because I had to pay to go home twice that week for hospital visits. My budget for everything (besides rent, as my student loan covered that) is £30 per week. I'm a big lad, but I'd say I spend about £20 per week on food (which I assume is average), leaving me £10 per week on everything else. I own a 16-25 railcard to maximise my discounts on my rail journeys and my cost for a day return ticket back to Huddersfield is £8.60 (even if you book 11 weeks in advance, the ticket price remains the same), which doesn't seem that much, however when I only have £10 budgeted and need to make this trip twice in one week I end up having to fork out £17.20 which seems rather pricey. Now to prove why the conversation with my flat mate is relevant in this debate, I should mention he lives in a nice area of central Liverpool, and he also owns a 16-25 railcard. Hypothetically, for him to go back for the same hospital appointments in Liverpool it would cost him £8.30 for a day return ticket or £4 for 2 advance single tickets from Manchester Piccadilly to Liverpool Lime Street. Meaning he could make the trip back for both hospital appointments, if he plans his journey wisely, for a mere £8. That's under half of what I would have to pay, yet Liverpool Lime Street is 9 miles further away from Manchester Piccadilly than Huddersfield Station is (in the opposite direction). So overall across both there and back twice, my flat mate travels 36 miles further, for £9.20 less. So, how and why?!?!?

I've tried to contact Transpennine Express in order to get an answer however I haven't had any response after 5 days, so it looks like no one really knows the answer. It really doesn't make sense to me, since when I board a train from Huddersfield to Manchester Piccadilly it usually continues through and terminates at Liverpool Lime Street, so the trains run on the same lines!

By the way, I'm not looking for people to give me the line of 'get a job to get more money, then you'll be able to afford...' because that just isn't feasible in my current situation, I am however looking for genuine answers to see if anyone knows why it is significantly more expensive to travel a shorter distance than a longer distance? Also, why even when I book the maximum time in advance do I still receive no discount? I kind of feel like I get no benefit for being organised and trying to plan my journeys in advance.

Thanks in advance,
Tom

jbuchanangb

Advance purchase tickets are typically only available for quite long intercity journeys. It looks like Manchester to Huddersfield is only about half an hour on the train, no such tickets aren't offered. I have the same problem living half-an-hour by train from London, for which the off-peak day return (with Railcard) is about a tenner.

Manchester to Liverpool, being that much further and served by intercity services does have advance purchase tickets available, but you are locked into specific trains.

wealdroam

tomreaney wrote: »

Hi there,

This is my first post on here, and the only reason I'm really bothering is because something about the amount I'm spending on train travel has been really getting on my nerves. To give a little background, I'm an 18 year old university student, living in Manchester however my family still live back in Huddersfield. The topic first came up last week amongst my flat mate and I, when he didn't understand why I was saying I cant afford to go do something because I had to pay to go home twice that week for hospital visits. My budget for everything (besides rent, as my student loan covered that) is £30 per week. I'm a big lad, but I'd say I spend about £20 per week on food (which I assume is average), leaving me £10 per week on everything else. I own a 16-25 railcard to maximise my discounts on my rail journeys and my cost for a day return ticket back to Huddersfield is £8.60 (even if you book 11 weeks in advance, the ticket price remains the same), which doesn't seem that much, however when I only have £10 budgeted and need to make this trip twice in one week I end up having to fork out £17.20 which seems rather pricey. Now to prove why the conversation with my flat mate is relevant in this debate, I should mention he lives in a nice area of central Liverpool, and he also owns a 16-25 railcard. Hypothetically, for him to go back for the same hospital appointments in Liverpool it would cost him £8.30 for a day return ticket or £4 for 2 advance single tickets from Manchester Piccadilly to Liverpool Lime Street. Meaning he could make the trip back for both hospital appointments, if he plans his journey wisely, for a mere £8. That's under half of what I would have to pay, yet Liverpool Lime Street is 9 miles further away from Manchester Piccadilly than Huddersfield Station is (in the opposite direction). So overall across both there and back twice, my flat mate travels 36 miles further, for £9.20 less. So, how and why?!?!?

I've tried to contact Transpennine Express in order to get an answer however I haven't had any response after 5 days, so it looks like no one really knows the answer. It really doesn't make sense to me, since when I board a train from Huddersfield to Manchester Piccadilly it usually continues through and terminates at Liverpool Lime Street, so the trains run on the same lines!

By the way, I'm not looking for people to give me the line of 'get a job to get more money, then you'll be able to afford...' because that just isn't feasible in my current situation, I am however looking for genuine answers to see if anyone knows why it is significantly more expensive to travel a shorter distance than a longer distance? Also, why even when I book the maximum time in advance do I still receive no discount? I kind of feel like I get no benefit for being organised and trying to plan my journeys in advance.

Thanks in advance,
Tom

Hi Tom, welcome to the forums.

So in amongst all that waffle is the question "why do some train journeys cost more per mile that others?"

The simple answer is they charge more because they can.

Putting more meat on that... if the market will stand a higher fare then of course they are free to charge more - it's a market led business.
I don't know, but perhaps the trains between Manchester and Huddersfield are always packed thus showing that they have no need to encourage more passengers by offering cheaper fares.
Perhaps there is more capacity between Manchester and Liverpool and therefore the train company can afford to offer reduced fares to entice more travellers.

I see that you have asked TPE for an answer. I fear you will not get a helpful response. The sort of information you are asking for will almost certainly be considered 'commercially sensitive' - why should one company publicly disclose their strategy for maximising their profit - or minimising their losses?

zagfles

Have you looked at the "tickety split" app http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/split-cheap-train-tickets/

Have you looked at getting help with travel costs http://www.nhs.uk/nhsengland/healthcosts/pages/travelcosts.aspx

tomreaney

wealdroam wrote: »

Hi Tom, welcome to the forums.

So in amongst all that waffle is the question "why do some train journeys cost more per mile that others?"

The simple answer is they charge more because they can.

Putting more meat on that... if the market will stand a higher fare then of course they are free to charge more - it's a market led business.
I don't know, but perhaps the trains between Manchester and Huddersfield are always packed thus showing that they have no need to encourage more passengers by offering cheaper fares.
Perhaps there is more capacity between Manchester and Liverpool and therefore the train company can afford to offer reduced fares to entice more travellers.

I see that you have asked TPE for an answer. I fear you will not get a helpful response. The sort of information you are asking for will almost certainly be considered 'commercially sensitive' - why should one company publicly disclose their strategy for maximising their profit - or minimising their losses?

I understand the charging what they want, that's just basic business really. However, capacity isn't an issue, as the train from Huddersfield to Manchester usually follow through to Liverpool. Even without the ability to have advance tickets, is there any explanation as to why I save nothing by pre booking tickets? I can buy tickets right now for in April, however they cost the same as if I bought one for tomorrow.

tomreaney

jbuchanangb wrote: »

Advance purchase tickets are typically only available for quite long intercity journeys. It looks like Manchester to Huddersfield is only about half an hour on the train, no such tickets aren't offered. I have the same problem living half-an-hour by train from London, for which the off-peak day return (with Railcard) is about a tenner.

Manchester to Liverpool, being that much further and served by intercity services does have advance purchase tickets available, but you are locked into specific trains.

Intercity journeys seems a fair point, maybe i should try getting an advance ticket to leeds and get off at huddersfield anyway? Think the distance shouldn't make a difference though, only 9 miles different, and Huddersfield is on the same line. Cant really do much about it as companies will charge as much as they want though by looks of it.

Kite2010

IIRC there are 6 trains an hour from Manchester to Huddersfield (2 from Victoria, 4 from Piccadilly). Unless you restrict yourself to the Northern stopper or the 2 TPE services which call at Stalybridge then your options for split ticketing are more limited as the rest run non-stop.

I wouldn't bother booking advances to Leeds and finishing short at Huddersfield as if caught by the RPIs you may have to pay again.

In the case of Liverpool, TPE have competition from both Northern & EMT for fast trips across the great divide

wealdroam

tomreaney wrote: »

I understand the charging what they want, that's just basic business really. However, capacity isn't an issue, as the train from Huddersfield to Manchester usually follow through to Liverpool. Even without the ability to have advance tickets, is there any explanation as to why I save nothing by pre booking tickets? I can buy tickets right now for in April, however they cost the same as if I bought one for tomorrow.

I only gave capacity as an example of what the reason might be.
I see you have been given another possibility - competition for passengers between train operating companies on the Liverpool route.

I have no doubt there are many other possible reasons, but we're all only guessing.
Read again the last paragraph of my earlier post.

elverson

Is it worth transferring your hospital care to Manchester Royal Infirmary (which is near the universities)? Your Manchester GP should be able to refer you.