HELP! Letter from American Collection Agency

JB613

Hi There,

I am after some help on behalf of my wife who was very upset and distressed to find a letter from an American collection agency, AmerAssist for over $7000. The letter itself is a "Balance Verification" letter and specifically says "Unless you notify this office within 30 days after receiving this notice that you dispute the validity of this debt or any portion thereof, this office will assume the debt is valid". I was concerned that this could be a scam of sorts but it does give creditor details, Integrative Nutrition Inc which my wife recognises.

Basically, last year my wife signed up to an online health coaching course with that company. The course was paid for using a recurring credit card payment. The course and its content was not what she expected so she quit within the first month.

Prior to starting the course she spoke via an online chat to an advisor and this scenario was covered as the total course fee was a significant investment (although i don't know what specific details they went into) but my wife says that she was told she could leave if it wasn't for her.

When she attempted to quit, contrary to what she had been told she was told she could not and that she was liable for all the fees. A few emails disputing this were exchanged with no resolve so my wife just cancelled the recurring payment. and has never accessed the online materials again. Despite cancelling the payments further monies were taken. These types of recurring payments are notoriously difficult to cancel however she re-contacted the banks and after several attempts they were finally stopped. Subsequent payments made were also refunded by the bank.

I know my wife maybe should have done her research before she signed up. I have been able to find their T&C's and it basically says that by accessing the site you agree to be covered by US LAW. And there is information that if you leave you will be liable to various costs. Even if my wife was liable for all of these costs then the figure would be less than half of the $7000+ they want. My wife also disputes these as they include books and materials which she never received.

My questions are is this legal? And do we have to pay?

Anybody can write anything into their T&C's and make it seem official but it can be without any legal standing and in fact violate consumer law.

Are we bound by US Law? and is this enforceable?

Thanks

A very worried JB

National_Debtline

Hi JB,


You may need to get some legal advice regarding this matter and have them check the terms and conditions of the agreement. The cancellation process/ liability you have described - where the full course it liable even if you do not complete it - would not be unheard of. There may have been a small window at the start of the course where she could've cancelled with no fee - but that will depend on the contract. Unfortunately, cancelling the payments doesn't change the liability and the debt may have incurred addition interest and late payment charges.


If this debt originated in America it is difficult to say whether or not they can enforce it, here in the UK, as there is no reciprocal agreement between the 2 countries (this means that the UK may not recognise this debt). In order for the creditor to enforce it here they would need to approach the court and request permission, and unfortunately, there is no way to know if this will be given.


However, the debt could still be enforceable in American, so if your wife were ever to travel there then there could be ramifications for this debt then.


Laura
@natdebtline

sourcrates

Hi,

Some interesting information here :

https://united-kingdom.taylorwessing.com/uploads/tx_siruplawyermanagement/Enforcing_US_judgments_in_UK.pdf

This first point may be of particular interest :

Jurisdiction

The US court must have had international jurisdiction according to English conflict of laws rules. Broadly this means that the English court will have to be satisfied that either the judgment debtor was either present in the US when the US proceedings were commenced or entered an appearance in the US proceedings or otherwise expressly submitted to the jurisdiction of the US court.

Badically if your wife was in the UK, she was never under the jurisdiction of a US court, therefore any judgement made in the US cannot be enforced in the UK.

itchyfeet123

JB613 wrote: »

Hi There,
I have been able to find their T&C's and it basically says that by accessing the site you agree to be covered by US LAW. ...
Are we bound by US Law? and is this enforceable?

sourcrates wrote: »

Hi,

Some interesting information here :

https://united-kingdom.taylorwessing.com/uploads/tx_siruplawyermanagement/Enforcing_US_judgments_in_UK.pdf

This first point may be of particular interest :

Jurisdiction

The US court must have had international jurisdiction according to English conflict of laws rules. Broadly this means that the English court will have to be satisfied that either the judgment debtor was either present in the US when the US proceedings were commenced or entered an appearance in the US proceedings or otherwise expressly submitted to the jurisdiction of the US court.

Badically if your wife was in the UK, she was never under the jurisdiction of a US court, therefore any judgement made in the US cannot be enforced in the UK.

I'm not a lawyer, but I would say that agreeing to the clause in the Ts&Cs would fit under "expressly submitting to the jurisdiction of the US court".

I'm guessing your wife didn't take screenshots of the online chat she had? If you wanted to fight you could probably compel the company to turn them over, and then argue that you were acting on the advice of their representatives, but that would probably cost more than paying the debt.

Personally, I would ignore it unless a UK court orders you to pay. If you were travelling to the US, a private debt isn't going to flag up at border control. Even if you *moved* to the US, this debt won't be on your credit record there.

sourcrates

itchyfeet123 wrote: »

I'm not a lawyer, but I would say that agreeing to the clause in the Ts&Cs would fit under "expressly submitting to the jurisdiction of the US court".

I think if it came down to the wire, this is the legal argument that the case would rest on.

Normally debts like this rarely are heard of again, the cost of taking the action in another country, engaging lawyers etc, often far exceeds the original debt, and is just not cost effective.

For example, if it came to a hearing, would that not mean an american legal representative would have to fly from the states to appear in court here, the airfare alone plus the hotel, would be more than $7000.

Much cheaper to send a letter, and hope you cave in.

JB613

Hi Guys,
I hope you all had a good weekend and am grateful for your thoughts and opinions.

As I said above we know my wife made a mistake in not exploring the full T&C's but she was told she could cancel. The payment structure was that of a subscription with recurring payments and she did not enter into a credit agreement for the course fee.

I do wonder if this is just a company chancing their luck in gaining an awful lot of money through minimal work. I mentioned that the sum being demanded is far in excess of the entire value of the course let alone what it would be having ended the course so early on.

My concerns are still around the grey area of the internet and what jurisdiction it comes under and I am still keen to hear from any other experts. Where does consumer law fit in? Terms and conditions can say anything, but if they are fundamentally unlawful then surely they cannot be binding. Is enough to simply say "I place this website in this country, therefore you are bound by it's laws"?

Once again thank you for your views.

National_Debtline

Hello again,


When you have mentioned consumer law I assume you are referring to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 that governs unfair terms in 'consumer contracts'. (However, you also have things such as the Sale of Goods Act 1979 and the Consumer Credit Act, but whether these are what you mean I am not sure). A consumer contract term is unfair if it is found to cause a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations under the contract to the disadvantage of the consumer. If you think this is the case I would suggest speaking to the Citizens Advice Consumer Service - 03454 04 05 06


It is a very difficult situation and if the Citizens Advice cannot help then I think you are the stage where you need legal advice. I appreciate this may cost money but realistically, someone must look at the T & C's of the agreement and then guide you from there. Good luck,


Laura
@natdebtline

Mr.Generous

Just a thought, but sales reps say all sorts to get people to sign up, even when they know it to be false. If someone were to show an interest in the course now, and screenshot it, and they made false claims with regard to cancellation then it would really strengthen your case.

[Deleted User]

Personally I would ignore the letter, It is highly unlikely that they will try and chase this through the UK courts, and even if they did you could offer them £5 a week. But I wouldn't lose any sleep over this they sound like a bunch of chancers.