Are degrees in the UK value for money?

GreatApe

Arklight wrote: »

And I say again, try and get one.

https://www.findapprenticeship.service.gov.uk/

This is the government site for finding apprenticeships. I put in a 10 mile radius from my densely populated part of the affluent south east.

Apart from some hairdresser vacancies, one early years company, and a couple of firms wanting man fridays there is nothing that would have any chance of leading to an actual career. They are all catering or retail wanting slave labour or pot washers they don't have to pay and pretending they are offering a career.

What would 16 year old Cakeguts have access to? I am willing to bet about the same and a UCAS application to a university he considers himself too good for.

If you are young and without a lot of skills what you need to do is get a job any job that pays a wage. Avoid the black and grey markets I mean a real job at a real company. The larger the company the better your prospects it does not matter if you start from the bottom just answering phone calls and making coffees

The pay might be low but if you work hard you will be noticed by those above you and they will present opportunities to you. It might not come straight away but it will come. For example I know a 16 year old that worked at a phone shop a hard polite worker who was on minimum wage. He did it until he was 27 and then was offered a job with Virgin Media for £60k a year. He went from £16k a year to £60k a year because he was polite conscientious and tried hard a boy that left school at age 16

The best advice to give to a young person is be polite, never turn up late, speak proper, dress well, try hard dont sulk and become friends (genuinely) with people older richer and smarter than yourself. From that will come opportunities and what is even greater is if you make a success of those opportunities they will give you yet more opportunities to better your pay and status.

economic

GreatApe wrote: »

One of the problems we have as a nation and this probably applies to most the western nations is that we seem to fool our young into this notion that work is fulfillment and the highest good to aim for.

It is true for maybe 2% of people who have jobs they absolutely love and would still go in every day with love for the job even if the wage was half what it is. But for the 98% a job is just for money and you would not do it if it paid half as much.

Kids should be encouraged to do jobs that pay well mostly because if its just a job that you would not do for free (as 98% of jobs are) then you might as well be paid well for it. Other than pay a job is just a job find fulfillment in other areas of your life as its very unlikely to come from a career/job.

this is spot on. a lot of people think they have a career when in fact its only a job. a career if something you do for the love of it irrespective of the money. a job you do for the money as a primary goal. 98% of the working population have jobs not careers.

probably a reason why i quit on my "career", the marginal benefit of staying (additional money didn't increase wealth in % terms that much) on was more then outweighed by the lack of fulfillment of the job.

Filo25

GreatApe wrote: »

One of the problems we have as a nation and this probably applies to most the western nations is that we seem to fool our young into this notion that work is fulfillment and the highest good to aim for.

It is true for maybe 2% of people who have jobs they absolutely love and would still go in every day with love for the job even if the wage was half what it is. But for the 98% a job is just for money and you would not do it if it paid half as much.

Kids should be encouraged to do jobs that pay well mostly because if its just a job that you would not do for free (as 98% of jobs are) then you might as well be paid well for it. Other than pay a job is just a job find fulfillment in other areas of your life as its very unlikely to come from a career/job.

I don't hate my job by any means, its actually a really good company to work for and they treat their staff well, but I don't have a great passion for what I do either, I am also very much in it for the money!

GreatApe

economic wrote: »

this is spot on. a lot of people think they have a career when in fact its only a job. a career if something you do for the love of it irrespective of the money. a job you do for the money as a primary goal. 98% of the working population have jobs not careers.

probably a reason why i quit on my "career", the marginal benefit of staying (additional money didn't increase wealth in % terms that much) on was more then outweighed by the lack of fulfillment of the job.

There is one important additional bonus to jobs other than the pay and that is routine and for introverts it is also some social interaction which tends to keep people more stable and grounded. So generally I would not advise leaving work if it leads to people just sitting at home because that can have negative consequences which can mount up

I know someone that took early retirement at age 50 and did pretty much that, just sat at home did nothing else. Last I heard he become an alcoholic and his life spiraled down quite badly.

The routine is a good reason for many to continue to work.
Of course this does not mean continue to work in the same job a person can get a different job that suits them better.

This is one of the risks of AI.
We will become immensely rich and most the population wont need to work anymore
That sounds fantastic but if we end up spending 16 hours a day browsing the internet in our underwear that wont be a good outcome. Extroverts wont have any problems they will party and holiday all day every day. The introverts might struggle in a world of immense wealth and no work.

Arklight

GreatApe wrote: »

If you are young and without a lot of skills what you need to do is get a job any job that pays a wage. Avoid the black and grey markets I mean a real job at a real company. The larger the company the better your prospects it does not matter if you start from the bottom just answering phone calls and making coffees

The pay might be low but if you work hard you will be noticed by those above you and they will present opportunities to you. It might not come straight away but it will come. For example I know a 16 year old that worked at a phone shop a hard polite worker who was on minimum wage. He did it until he was 27 and then was offered a job with Virgin Media for £60k a year. He went from £16k a year to £60k a year because he was polite conscientious and tried hard a boy that left school at age 16

The best advice to give to a young person is be polite, never turn up late, speak proper, dress well, try hard dont sulk and become friends (genuinely) with people older richer and smarter than yourself. From that will come opportunities and what is even greater is if you make a success of those opportunities they will give you yet more opportunities to better your pay and status.

I am confused. Are young people supposed to accept they don't have any skills and work for £16k a year in retail until they are almost 30 when they then get a rather improbable sounding promotion to £60k a year; or should they take on £60k worth of uni debt and go into a better job?

GunJack

GreatApe wrote: »

in a world of immense wealth and no work.

where that wealth is owned by around 0.1 or whatever small % it will be....

...and the rest will be left to rot on poverty benefits..if there's far less work, how else are you going to ensure people can live? Or is this another right-wing, poor people exploitation/removal policy??

GreatApe

Arklight wrote: »

I am confused. Are young people supposed to accept they don't have any skills and work for £16k a year in retail until they are almost 30 when they then get a rather improbable sounding promotion to £60k a year; or should they take on £60k worth of uni debt and go into a better job?

There is no one answer to that and it depends on your temperament

If a child is very high IQ and can get into one of the top 10 universities then probably go to university

If they are just average IQ but high conscientious then they would probably be better off going into a medium/large company and working their way up

There is also of course self employment and businesses so its not just about someone giving you a job.

But most importantly work and jobs should not be the highest goal in a persons life.
Relationships marriage and children are probably more important.
Put more effort into getting that right than getting a slightly better paying job

GreatApe

GunJack wrote: »

where that wealth is owned by around 0.1 or whatever small % it will be....

...and the rest will be left to rot on poverty benefits..if there's far less work, how else are you going to ensure people can live? Or is this another right-wing, poor people exploitation/removal policy??

This is just left nonesense

The biggest stock of wealth in this country, and almost every country, is housing

Guess what, over 70% of the older generation own their own house and most of them outright

That more clearly than anything shows clearly wealth is indeed widely spread out

GunJack

GreatApe wrote: »

This is just left nonesense

The biggest stock of wealth in this country, and almost every country, is housing

Guess what, over 70% of the older generation own their own house and most of them outright

That more clearly than anything shows clearly wealth is indeed widely spread out

so when we reach this nirvana of wealth without work, are you planning on giving everyone who doesn't own one already, a house? And expect all will be solved? What about costs of energy & food? Your arguments are flawed, and that's not Leftist nonsense...

GreatApe

GunJack wrote: »

so when we reach this nirvana of wealth without work, are you planning on giving everyone who doesn't own one already, a house? And expect all will be solved? What about costs of energy & food? Your arguments are flawed, and that's not Leftist nonsense...

No one can predict accurately what happens when General AI is invented.

If the outcome is peaceful everyone will have everything and anything you can imagine.

If the outcome is not peaceful it does not bear thinking about, not only could it wipe out the human species but it could be even worse than that.