Are degrees in the UK value for money?

[Deleted User]

All the 'new' companies?

Apple - 41 years old
Amazon - 23 years old
Google- 19 years old
Facebook - 13 years old
Uber - 8 years old

British firms don't seem to fair so well. It's probably a big case of 'the big fish' being able to out compete or just buy many competitors. In the case of AI, a lot of British firms get bought up (https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/8x8jq4/gamers-cant-stop-buying-the-loot-boxes-they-hate)

We do have a vibrant start-up industry in the UK.. but once firms start getting noticed, they sell out. They also don't have access to the venture capital that the American firms do

So we actually need a stronger banking sector if we want more 'world class' British companies

A quick example is SwiftKey - A British IT firm that developed clever AI keyboards for mobile phones. It did well.. and then was bought by Microsoft for $250m last year.

Cakeguts

ringo_24601 wrote: »

Don't forget we'd also DIE in terms of R&D. Academic research would, technically, not exist any more. So lets forget all that stuff like cancer research that academics do. Pharmaceutical firms wouldn't be able to hire PhD students anymore.

So, sure, we'd be able to manage stuff we did in the 1950s-70s.. but the world is more complicated now. Our employers don't 'train people on the job', and I highly doubt they would. They'd hire as many experienced staff as they could and try to retain them. We'd hit a giant brick wall as 'experience' died out.

It would be quite funny to see what would become of the country if big firms could only hire 18 year olds with A Levels.

What you probably don't realise is that apart from the top 20 or so universities all the other degrees are only worth in educational standards what 3 old A levels used to be. So big companies are hiring people with educational standards of 3 old A levels. What is needed is a higher standard exam at 18 so that people who can only get the new standard of A levels can choose if they want to go to university. The highly intelligent students can take VA very advanced levels which would be like old style A levels and go to the top universities. If someone chooses to go to an A level university rather than doing an apprenticeship or training course they can expect to pay off some of the student loan regardless of how much they earn.

kabayiri

I read that 50% of American PHD students are sourced from overseas.

They basically buy in their talent. It makes sense.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35776555

..seems much of the talent is coming from China.

Cameron made an interesting comment (for once) a couple of years back. He bemoaned the fact that not enough UK grads pursue opportunities abroad.

I think he's right. We should be pushing for far more exchange schemes with our brightest. It's a good way of extending our reach.

Relying on our own university base as the mainstay of educated people seems a bit limiting. We can find loads of talent in India and China, and the pool is growing by the month.

BobQ

Thrugelmir wrote: »

How can the Government plan when they've no control over the movement of people. Training qualified staff takes years. People arrive in minutes.

My nephew has lived in Berlin and commutes to London as his work dictates for the past 8 years. His partner has recently given birth and is experiencing difficulties. They don't like the German healthcare system so are moving to her parents in Scotland in order to access the NHS. How do you plan for that?

How do companies plan? They have a core workforce based on their best predictions of the workforce they need. They manage the uncertainties by shedding staff, or recruiting from the job market including temporary staff. Where needed they use immigration to address the problem.

gfplux

BobQ wrote: »

How do companies plan? They have a core workforce based on their best predictions of the workforce they need. They manage the uncertainties by shedding staff, or recruiting from the job market including temporary staff. Where needed they use immigration to address the problem.

If only Government would plan. While they don't have detailed statistics (due to lack of planning!) they could at least use what they have.
I suspect that if they had proper planning the results would have to be implemented and they would not want their hands forced. Government appear to prefer the back of a fag packet to plan for the future.

Boredatwrork

gfplux wrote: »

If only Government would plan. While they don't have detailed statistics (due to lack of planning!) they could at least use what they have.
I suspect that if they had proper planning the results would have to be implemented and they would not want their hands forced. Government appear to prefer the back of a fag packet to plan for the future.

If a Government actually attempted to do things based on the long term greater good, they would be ousted before you could say "free student fees" for not delivering immediate results. They know this and so do much of the public. It's all a game.

michaels

Another group (I know they are a VI) wading in to the 'many undergrads are being ripped off by the degrees industry' discussion:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42003418

She's got plenty of company. The Chartered Institute for Personnel and Development (CIPD) has been tracking graduate outcomes and reckons that for those who left in the 2015 university year, 48% ended up in non-graduate jobs six months on.
Lizzie Crowley, the author of the report, says: "Unless we actually see degrees creating value for the economy, it is a big problem."

GreatApe

Give all 18 year olds £2k a year for every year they have lived in the UK.
So at age 18 they will get £36k. Let them purchase a house or an education with that sum
I reckon half maybe more will see more value in the house than in the education.

A couple age 18 could combine their £36k which would mean a 60% deposit on a 3 bedroom home in Birmingham. Borrow the other 40% on a 15 year mortgage and their housing cost would only be £310 per month

Even if they were earning just minimum wage they could clear the remaining mortgage in less than 5 years time. If they want to clear the mortgage in 5 years time its just £840 per month of their £2,250 per month post tax income. From age 23 they would have a house and no mortgage to pay life would be easy.

3 bedroom house mortgage free by age 23 seems a lot better than leaving university with nothing to show for it but a second in modern dance studies.

I would like it to be a gifted £32k but if that is not going to happen then have it on the same terms as the current student loans to be paid back when earnings are above a certain amount

economic

GreatApe wrote: »

Give all 18 year olds £2k a year for every year they have lived in the UK.
So at age 18 they will get £36k. Let them purchase a house or an education with that sum
I reckon half maybe more will see more value in the house than in the education.

A couple age 18 could combine their £36k which would mean a 60% deposit on a 3 bedroom home in Birmingham. Borrow the other 40% on a 15 year mortgage and their housing cost would only be £310 per month

Even if they were earning just minimum wage they could clear the remaining mortgage in less than 5 years time. If they want to clear the mortgage in 5 years time its just £840 per month of their £2,250 per month post tax income. From age 23 they would have a house and no mortgage to pay life would be easy.

3 bedroom house mortgage free by age 23 seems a lot better than leaving university with nothing to show for it but a second in modern dance studies.

I would like it to be a gifted £32k but if that is not going to happen then have it on the same terms as the current student loans to be paid back when earnings are above a certain amount

are 3 bed homes in birmingham only 60k??

GreatApe

economic wrote: »

are 3 bed homes in birmingham only 60k??

No. £120k

If FTBs were given £32k each either gifted or a repayment on the same terms as student loans then they would need less than a £60k mortgage