Are degrees in the UK value for money?

GreatApe

Tabbytabbitha wrote: »

I disagree. An educated population is always going to be a worthwhile investment if that education has been of a high enough standard.

this is an empty statement

at its most fundamental level society needs to decide how much resources it will dedicate to its various needs and wants. Since it costs about £50k on average why not allow the kids to use £50k for either their higher education or £50k for a deposit on buying a home or £50k into their pension.

Arleen

Tabbytabbitha wrote: »

I said a "good" education and I disagree that it's a populist viwpoint at all - not these days!

Well, feel free to define the terms then, rather than just throwing them around with unabsed in anything conclusions that you base them on. I especially would love to see the way you've determined "good" (whatever that means, do define) education v trump electorate (and why is that a bad thing). You know, actual well formulated argument, not just random populistic slogans.

GreatApe

does higher education actually increase the productivity of the workforce at all?

I am not so sure the answer is a clear yes, and once you look at the productivity lost in dedicating 10% of our working age adults to very slowly and inefficiently learn subjects that in most cases will be irrelevant and forgotten a year after graduation its almost certainly a no

Here is an idea, close down all higher education and hand all 18 year olds a hello to adulthood cheque for £50k. They can buy an education at one of the remaining 15 universities the other 150 universities will go out of business. The annual 100,000 or so students that decide to use their cheque for higher education good luck to them, the rest will see and get more value from using the money elsewhere

Tabbytabbitha

Arleen wrote: »

Well, feel free to define the terms then, rather than just throwing them around with unabsed in anything conclusions that you base them on. I especially would love to see the way you've determined "good" (whatever that means, do define) education v trump electorate (and why is that a bad thing). You know, actual well formulated argument, not just random populistic slogans.

Care to translate?

Tabbytabbitha

GreatApe wrote: »

this is an empty statement

at its most fundamental level society needs to decide how much resources it will dedicate to its various needs and wants. Since it costs about £50k on average why not allow the kids to use £50k for either their higher education or £50k for a deposit on buying a home or £50k into their pension.

From that £50k you need to deduct the three years of benefits that you'd be paying instead - not necessarily to the student him/herself but to the older (more expensive) worker whose job they would take. It could be a pretty close run thing.

GreatApe

Tabbytabbitha wrote: »

From that £50k you need to deduct the three years of benefits that you'd be paying instead - not necessarily to the student him/herself but to the older (more expensive) worker whose job they would take. It could be a pretty close run thing.

that is not how an economy works there are not a fixed number of jobs

we allocate resources to meet needs and wants.
Currently I think its about 10% of our working age population dedicated to higher education.
unless all of our current needs and wants are already met these 3 million individuals will be put to productive use.

Cakeguts

Jon_B wrote: »

Have not read most of the thread. But as a graduate in 2009, I feel the university experience was worthwhile.

I came out with £22k of student debt, but I got myself into a graduate scheme (even with a 2:1 in History - those damned arts degrees!) and I am just about get a pay rise to take me to £50k. This would not have happened without my degree.

The only punishment is that £230/month comes straight out of my wages to pay off the debt. Probably another 5 or so years til it is paid off.

There is actually no way that you could know whether you could have got there without a degree because you didn't go down that route. You also paid less for your degree course than people have to pay now.

zagubov

Arleen wrote: »

You do realize that US has higer % of tetriary education graduates than UK, right?

Yes, but those with Associate degrees are just above A level and well below HND.
Those with honours degrees are about ordinary degree standard.
Those with masters are about honours degree level.
So there's no comparison really.

preciousillusions

Arleen wrote: »

And that is part of the problem! Yes, most people enjoy the "uni experience", but then a lot of them wind up with qualifications that did not justify the cost of it. And people should be going for HE to either gain skills that will increase their marketability in the work place, in which case doing so on the loan is perfectly fine. The other is for pursuing ones interests, which doesn't have any marketabiltiy, and should only be done if you can afford it, without relying on public funds.

Well yes, true, but is 'marketability' truly the only objective that matters? Also I certainly didn't just do my degree to pursue my interests and did see a career outcome at the end of it, the lack of which resulting is largely health related as I said.

SingleSue

Tabbytabbitha wrote: »

It's certainly difficult to explain the difference between a poly type course which is about being taught and a "proper " university which is about learning independently with academic staff as a resource and as facilitators. Unfortunately, some parents and students and (heaven forbid) some teachers look at contact time and assume that, even for a very academic student, more is better and, of course nowadays, better value.

Youngest's style is learning independently with as little contact as possible, if he could get away with not going to college apart from very occasional times, he would be perfectly happy as he finds it too slow moving and information he already knows.

He is pretty much self taught, he has had to be due to his enforced absences from college for his medical issues. If he had relied just on what he was being taught whilst at college for the time he has been able to attend it would have been a disaster, as it is, through his desperation not to fall behind he has ended up with a far greater and wider knowledge than his peers.

By the by, the contact time at both universities that he was trying to decide between was exactly the same, with the same expectation of independent study but only one was accredited.