Are degrees in the UK value for money?

Arklight

Cakeguts wrote: »

I read it and it says that you transfer to a 4 year university course after an associated degree which is basically what I said in the first place that a community college degree is like A levels.

All you have to do is google the standard of a high school diploma and you get all the results that I did that it is the same level as GCSEs in the UK.

The US has dumbed down its education the UK is following it. All that happens is that students finish up paying for their A level education as well as university education. I don't think this is fair I think students should get A level education for free as part of their high school education. In fact if we raised the levels of school education we could get back to where it used to be so that people could get free education at technical college after their much harder GCSEs at go at 16 rather then having to attend something called a university and pay for it at 18.

Dropping education standards in many state schools means that we now have young people paying for the education that they used to get for free.

Yes, the third year of a four year university degree, not the first year.

Arklight

Cakeguts wrote: »

https://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/114262/half-of-graduates-in-the-northwest-acknowledge-they-are-no-better-off-having-studied

I just found this. The students listed the most useless degrees.

17% says they wished they hadn't done their degree, whereas 83% were glad they had.


The respondents who thought they weren't earning more because of their degree may well have a different opinion in 30 years time.


The value of education to an individual and society, is not necessarily correlated to what pays well. If it did the only things we would teach would be BTL Landlord Studies and Being a Premiership Footballers Wife. Two of the most societally useless occupations the human race has created.

GreatApe

Arklight wrote: »

17% says they wished they hadn't done their degree, whereas 83% were glad they had.

The respondents who thought they weren't earning more because of their degree may well have a different opinion in 30 years time.

The value of education to an individual and society, is not necessarily correlated to what pays well. If it did the only things we would teach would be BTL Landlord Studies and Being a Premiership Footballers Wife. Two of the most societally useless occupations the human race has created.

How many of the 17 year olds would go to university if you told them that it was likely they would only manage to get a non graduate job?

What proportion of tax payers would want to expand education vs contract it if they understood the marginal student ends up in a non graduate job and earns so little that they default on part or all of their loans?

GreatApe

Arklight wrote: »

17% says they wished they hadn't done their degree, whereas 83% were glad they had.

They need to be given a choice without a choice even something of low value can be precieved as some value.

If you wanted to find out how much value they think a degree actually is get 100 kids and offer to give them £60k on their tuition or £60k into their bank accounts to spend as they wish see what proportion of the 100 kids actually would buy an education for £60k out of their own pockets

Arklight

GreatApe wrote: »

How many of the 17 year olds would go to university if you told them that it was likely they would only manage to get a non graduate job?

What proportion of tax payers would want to expand education vs contract it if they understood the marginal student ends up in a non graduate job and earns so little that they default on part or all of their loans?

All of the ones who wanted to study their subject in depth and experience going to university would do.


As a net taxpayer I am happy to fund education because I would rather share a country with people who are educated as well as they can be, than those who aren't.


Some of my taxes goes towards funding the state pensions of a lot of wealthy retired people to sit around on the internet all day carping about Brexit and how terrible young people are.


Maybe I can pay less to them?

GreatApe

Arklight wrote: »

All of the ones who wanted to study their subject in depth and experience going to university would do.

Sure but the number of kids that really love their subject is probably below 5% they are the ones that tend not only to get grade As but very high grade As.

But even then it can be a bad choice. At 17 if I was given £60k I probably would have spent it on an education because I loved physics and mathematics and was the best at it at my college. With hindsight though I feel it was wasted for myself and the country. I only worked a graduate job for about 3 years of my life but even then I could have done it with just my A-levels knowledge.

As a net taxpayer I am happy to fund education because I would rather share a country with people who are educated as well as they can be, than those who aren't.

There must be a limit of diminishing returns. If not why not train everyone to masters and phd and maybe multiple degrees? Clearly everyone draws a line somewhere so dont pretend otherwise.

Some of my taxes goes towards funding the state pensions of a lot of wealthy retired people to sit around on the internet all day carping about Brexit and how terrible young people are.

Maybe I can pay less to them?

If you want to get rid of state pensions it would have to be a slow process over a few decades you can not just burn previous promises.

economic

I did a maths degree at a top uni. I dont think i really loved it, but i did it because i was good at it and thought it would lead to good careers later on (although i wasnt sure what exactly).

Looking back i am certain i didnt need a maths degree for the jobs that i did (fairly technical jobs in banking). Alevel maths would have been sufficient. Luckily for me i only paid £1k a year but i would have still done what i did if it cost £10k a year. However i had NO CHOICE but to do a degree to enter into the jobs i did. There is a clear distinction between NEEDING a degree and WANTING a degree. 90% of degrees are done purely because they are just a ticket not because it will be any use to the person doing it.

With experience and hindsight, i hate to think how taxpayer money is being wasted on these pointless degrees. You really do not need 90% of degrees costing £9k a year. Its probably the biggest scam going in the uk and not many are talking about it.

economic

As we have advanced and new technologies, why not just broadcast the lectures on youtube, students can pay a minimal course fee, do the lectures in their own time (many could be done within a year), and perhaps do an online test or if you have o a moderated exam. then you get the degree.

you have no need for all these universities, you can shut them down and save the taxpayer a lot of money.

Make use of high speed internet, streaming services, high def monitors/TVs, collaborative online environments, powerful computing.

Then eventually you will have AI to do many of the jobs so no one will even need to go into debt of 60k for a useless degree!

economic

PS i cant believe its taken over a 1000 posts to still debate the value of uk degrees. Its as clear as daylight how much of a waste of resources and a scam the whole education system is.

economic

GreatApe wrote: »

If you want to get rid of state pensions it would have to be a slow process over a few decades you can not just burn previous promises.

Its very difficult to see if state pension will exist in 10 or 20 years time in its current form. So many variables to consider that no one can even come close to accurately forecast. But i will assume i will certainly not get back a significant amount of my taxes having been a high earner, paid over 500k in taxes and seeing how the money is being wasted.