NHS redeployment and pension

Manxman_in_exile

I think you definitely need to get good advice from your Union on this (from your regional office if necessary).


It used to be quite common for nurses in surprisingly high level management positions to retain their special class status (eg mental health officer). I'm not certain how this was achieved but I suspect, as an earlier poster suggested, it was by manipulating the management JD so as to maintain sufficient patient/clinical contact to satisfy MHO requirements.


I don't know if anything like this would still be available. I've heard of instances where the NHS Pensions Agency have queried whether staff claiming special class status are in fact eligible. No doubt they see it as potential abuse of the pension scheme.

hyubh

GunJack wrote: »

the way things are accounted in the Civil Service (so I'm assuming NHS also) it is probably down to overheads of the senior nursing position (inc. pension payments, notional contributions, etc.) being less than the overheads of the "management" position, rather than necessarily hard cash, if there wasn't a saving, they wouldn't be doing it....

OK, though I confess I'm still not getting it (how do pension payments differ when employer contributions have a flat rate?).

Manxman_in_exile

I wonder if it's worth also posting on the Redundancy board?


I know this is ostensibly a pension question but it's also about what is a suitable alternative job. If I were in your position I might be arguing that re-deployment to a non-clinical management post was not a suitable alternative. You'd be losing the opportunities both to retire early and to have some/all of your service doubled up. (Is that still correct?)


Do you know what redundancy options you would have? I got a choice of three.

woolly_wombat

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

It used to be quite common for nurses in surprisingly high level management positions to retain their special class status (eg mental health officer). I'm not certain how this was achieved but I suspect, as an earlier poster suggested, it was by manipulating the management JD so as to maintain sufficient patient/clinical contact to satisfy MHO requirements.

From the link I posted in #10, it does appear that special allowances are still made for those working at a senior level in mental health to more easily retain their special class status.

.

Manxman_in_exile

hyubh wrote: »

OK, though I confess I'm still not getting it (how do pension payments differ when employer contributions have a flat rate?).

I don't follow your question - but I'm no expert on how pensions are funded!


The way I look at it is that if you are in a Special Class you get a much better (and presumably more expensive to fund) NHS pension than other clinical staff. In theory you can retire with a full pension at 55 with just 20 years in the scheme (if my recollection is correct). Special Class staff fight tooth and nail to maintain their eligibility.


As an aside, my Trust made a lot of staff redundant (or early retired) at enormous cost, but apparently it made sense to do so. (Not sure how costs are apportioned between the employing trust and the "NHS".) Now they can't recruit and have to pay agency rates and overtime..

GunJack

hyubh wrote: »

OK, though I confess I'm still not getting it (how do pension payments differ when employer contributions have a flat rate?).

Don't ask me the specifics, I am but a humble Engineer, but down/regrading was always done as a cost-saving measure

Manxman_in_exile

GunJack wrote: »

Don't ask me the specifics, I am but a humble Engineer, but down/regrading was always done as a cost-saving measure

You should have been an NHS Director of Finance!

Manxman_in_exile

woolly_wombat wrote: »

From the link I posted in #10, it does appear that special allowances are still made for those working at a senior level in mental health to more easily retain their special class status.

.

I think it can even be done at Director of Nursing level, but I think that they, unlike the OP, are required to hold a nursing qualification.


These things are always easier the more senior you are. I fear the OP may not be senior enough.

woolly_wombat

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

As an aside, my Trust made a lot of staff redundant (or early retired) at enormous cost, but apparently it made sense to do so. (Not sure how costs are apportioned between the employing trust and the "NHS".) Now they can't recruit and have to pay agency rates and overtime..

The mother of one of my daughter's friends was a senior manager at a mental health trust when the cuts started. She had to sit tests to assess whether she had the intellectual capacity deemed necessary to continue in post. Knowing that redundancy at her age effectively meant early retirement she didn't go out of her way to do well!

She now spends her days volunteering as a patient advocate.

Manxman_in_exile

It is remarkable (and poetically ironic) how dysfunctional MH trusts can be.


Unfortunately I don't think we're helping the OP...