Forcing someone to retire

Gettingtherequickly

duchy wrote: »

Sounds very odd.

The fact this wasn't done on two separate occasions implies a very badly run company or a second agenda.

New accountant is systematically going through the accounts,have had a number of very incompetent people in the role. Sadly, the audit trail highlights pretty dramatically when the last competent person was in the role and when they died at a young age. They appear to have been very unlucky in trying to recruit someone competent, hopefully that search is at an end.

Manxman_in_exile

Can't the debtor/client/customer say who advised them of the "new account" details? Or are they still unaware that their payment has disappeared?


If there's definitely been a theft I don't see the problem in getting the police involved.

gettingtheresometime

Whilst it's no concern of company owner or accountant, the debtor needs to look at their policies re change bank account details as well.

A company with robust policies would have asked for a copy of a paying in slip showing the change in details.

steampowered

Stealing money from your employer is the clearest example of gross misconduct I can imagine. The fact they have done it twice is even worse.

I am finding it difficult to see any reason why this person cannot be dismissed immediately!

If the second incident is only "suspicion", then the company should investigate to work out whether that suspicion is true or not. A "reasonable belief" is all that is required. Surely if this person handed the customer incorrect bank details on an invoice or email that would be enough?

Tiddlywinks

Gettingtherequickly wrote: »

Accountant recently employed in finance dept, assistant been there for years, over pension age. Company owner has advised accountant that assistant had been caught with hand in till and is currently repaying by working some of the time "unpaid" (still ensuring min wage is paid). Appears that will be covered imminently. Assistant aware that accountant knows the history.

So the owner just accepted the theft with no sanctions other than working out the debt?

Not very professional or sensible was it?

Gettingtherequickly wrote: »

However, owner & accountant have now become aware that the hand may have been in the till again, debtor had been advised of new bank details and duly paid into the account, except it is not company account. Now, in fairness, this may be external fraud and they acknowledge that, but instinct says otherwise.

Whose instinct says otherwise - what is this to do with you?

There is no proof that the assistant is to blame for this latest loss.

It could be external fraud - as you've acknowledged above.

It could be the new accountant - knowing that the finger of suspicion would automatically fall on the assistant (as you have proven here on this thread).

It could have been a genuine error.

Gettingtherequickly wrote: »

Because of the data protection act, the receiving bank won't give details, but going to the police will ensure probable prosecution which would ultimately would not get the money back anyway. They just want to draw a line under it and get rid of the assistant. Assistant unaware of suspicions.

No - going to the police will ensure that the possibility of a crime is considered... currently there is no proof of that at all.

Gettingtherequickly wrote: »

Is there a way of getting rid so they can cut their losses?

The company needs to be professional enough to seek appropriate advice.

Having the incident discussed here is not really addressing the real issues that the company doesn't appear to have adequate processes / knowledge in place to satisfactorily manage employees - now *that* should be a crime.

getmore4less

Gettingtherequickly wrote: »

New accountant is systematically going through the accounts,have had a number of very incompetent people in the role. Sadly, the audit trail highlights pretty dramatically when the last competent person was in the role and when they died at a young age. They appear to have been very unlucky in trying to recruit someone competent, hopefully that search is at an end.

No luck involved just incompetence.

TBagpuss

If Iwere the employer here I would:
1.. Suspend the assistant (paid) while I investigate
2. Contact the debtor and ask them to confirm when, how and by whom they were told of the new details. If this was via e-mail, as them to forward the e-mail.
3. Inform the police. Whether it is internal or external fraud, as the employer there is no reason not to inform them. (and they might be be able to discover whether the bank account the debtor was told to pay money into is associated with the employee - for instance by searching the employee's home. And they will have a better chance of getting information out of the bank)
4. Follow the companies internal disciplinary process.Dismissal for gross misconduct does not need to involve proof of the level a court might need. It requires a fair process. If the process is fair and properly documented then normally the decision is only going to be one the employee can appeal or (successfully) challenge if it is one that no reasonable employer could have reached.

However, a business which was run in such a way that en employee was allowed to continue to work in the accounts department even after being caught stealing sounds like one which is poorly run so as employers, they would be wise to pay for advice from a proper employment lawyer, to make sure they follow proper procedures etc.

If they don't want to do that, then at the very least they should speak to ACAS for advice.

And tighten up their procedures to address the risk of external fraud, too.

getmore4less

if neither the company or one of it servants changed the account so it was external then it is nothing to do with this company.

They just tell the debtor to send the money as they have not paid yet.

Gettingtherequickly

Thanks for all of your comments. The new accountant was shocked at the lack of control, but I don't think nearly as shocked as the employees were when controls were put in place!

It sounds as if the issues are coming to light now because the accountant is finally able to go the balance sheet control accounts. I will pass on your suggestion to get professional advice.