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On-grid domestic battery storage

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Green & Ethical MoneySaving
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  • Martyn1981Martyn1981 Forumite
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    NigeWick wrote: »
    How many batteries used in the research? Who funded it? Since Nissan have had their used Leaf battery for home storage scheme, they allegedly haven't had enough batteries from vehicles to cope with any demand. Then there's the research suggesting that V2G battery use increases the life of vehicle batteries.

    yep, both nissan and renault's plans to re-use batts have run into problems as the batts are simply lasting too long, so supply has fallen short.

    long term i suppose this will resolve itself, and should of course be seen as good news.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • zeupaterzeupater Forumite
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    NigeWick wrote: »
    How many batteries used in the research? Who funded it? Since Nissan have had their used Leaf battery for home storage scheme, they allegedly haven't had enough batteries from vehicles to cope with any demand. Then there's the research suggesting that V2G battery use increases the life of vehicle batteries.
    Hi

    Don't worry about it at the moment .. doesn't really matter about the technical details, it's just seems to be based on overpriced & undersized battery systems ... I'd even guess what systems were the offenders ...

    Essentially, you can't do much other than to agree with the conclusion at the moment, I'd certainly question the economic benefits of domestic battery systems at the moment too ...

    The only reasonable prices (£/kWh) for a decent offing at the moment are coming from the Tesla stable, but if you're paying for capacity you don't need the solution becomes as expensive, if not more expensive than their competitors (£/kWh required), as per ... this article ... however, bulk market prices are reportedly falling quickly, so let's look forward to better system prices on the way soon ...

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • NigeWickNigeWick Forumite
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    zeupater wrote: »
    The only reasonable prices (£/kWh) for a decent offing at the moment are coming from the Tesla stable, but if you're paying for capacity you don't need the solution becomes as expensive, if not more expensive than their competitors (£/kWh required)

    Z, I am happy to pay for my solar and the Tesla Powerwall 2. Because, if there are enough early adopters like me then there will be more manufacturers after a piece of the market bringing competition and lower prices to allow many more to be able to afford solar and batteries in their homes.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
  • Martyn1981Martyn1981 Forumite
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    And another new battery product, but no prices. However it's got a 10yr and 10,000 cycle warranty.

    Hopefully we'll soon see a 15/20yr 10,000 cycle battery product, and that'll sell like hot cakes ... if the price is reasonable / not unreasonable.

    Varta Storage prepares to enter the UK as ‘the next market’ to open up
    The VARTA Storage pulse system offers a small, compact wall-mounted storage system for domestic use available in two classes - 3.3kWh and 6.5kWh. As a small compact system weighing just 45KG, or 65KG depending on the model, Varta claims it can be installed by one person in less than 30 minutes

    Meanwhile the element line, a three-phase all-in-one system with integrated power inverter and battery management system, will be available in four classes from 3.2kWh to a capacity of 13kWh.

    The standalone systems are enabled for smart grid applications and offer 10,000 cycles within a ten year warranty.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • edited 12 September 2017 at 7:20PM
    zeupaterzeupater Forumite
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    edited 12 September 2017 at 7:20PM
    NigeWick wrote: »
    Z, I am happy to pay for my solar and the Tesla Powerwall 2. Because, if there are enough early adopters like me then there will be more manufacturers after a piece of the market bringing competition and lower prices to allow many more to be able to afford solar and batteries in their homes.
    Hi

    The battery's not really the issue it's the relative price per kWh storage ...

    If the Tesla Powerwall 2 is (say) £6500 then you'd reasonably expect to compare with other offerings at ~£460/kWh ? ...

    However, if you only have a requirement for (say) 8kWh (factors=demand,PV capacity etc) then the real price becomes £812/kWh ...

    But many users only need sub 4kWh (at least myself & Mart), so cost/kWh doubles again to over £1600/kWh of usable capacity, which questions the Tesla Powerwall's competitiveness against smaller systems when you either don't need the extra capacity, or you're not really sure how much capacity you need, in which case a smaller minimum capacity with the option of modular expansion makes a lot more sense, especially when storage costs are predicted to fall rapidly ...

    as Per ...
    zeupater wrote: »
    Hi All

    Different but interesting analysis of Tesla's decision to seriously upsize the storage capacity for their Powerwall domestic battery.

    Tesla Powerwall 2 - Business brilliance or a concept in need of a reality check ?

    HTH
    Z

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • ASavvyBuyerASavvyBuyer Forumite
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    Another modular battery system here:

    https://www.cclcomponents.com/byd-b-box-2-5kw-lithium-battery-with-wall-mount-and-bmu

    2.5kW battery system for £1,456.
    Rhondda Cynon Taf, 4kWp, W roof, 30° pitch, 16 x 8.33 Eternity 250w E+10 panels, Solar Edge SE4000-16A Inverter + P300 Optimisers. Inst Aug 2015. Solic 200 Diverter, Toshiba RAS-10G2KVP-E Ultra High Efficiency Air Conditioner/Heat Pump, Kia Soul EV & 100% Green Octopus Agile Electric Tariff.
  • zeupaterzeupater Forumite
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    Another modular battery system here:

    https://www.cclcomponents.com/byd-b-box-2-5kw-lithium-battery-with-wall-mount-and-bmu

    2.5kW battery system for £1,456.
    Hi

    That's more like it ... buy into storage for a reasonable price, see how it works in your environment, then expand as and when necessary ..

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • Exiled_TykeExiled_Tyke Forumite
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    Another modular battery system here:

    https://www.cclcomponents.com/byd-b-box-2-5kw-lithium-battery-with-wall-mount-and-bmu

    2.5kW battery system for £1,456.

    This looks interesting:

    10 yr warranty: good
    No reference to no. of cycles though: bad
    2.5 kW discharge rate (per module): good

    What does it actually cost to get installed? And does this cost vary with the inverter - it claims to be compatible with a few but not SE as yet.

    And how good is a warranty anyway? Will these manufacturers be around for the 10yrs and how easy will it be to claim from a company based in China?
    Install 28th Nov 15, 3.3kW, (11x300LG), SolarEdge, SW. W Yorks.
    Install 2: Sept 19, 600W SSE
    Solax 6.3kW battery
  • edited 12 September 2017 at 8:01PM
    ASavvyBuyerASavvyBuyer Forumite
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    edited 12 September 2017 at 8:01PM
    Rhondda Cynon Taf, 4kWp, W roof, 30° pitch, 16 x 8.33 Eternity 250w E+10 panels, Solar Edge SE4000-16A Inverter + P300 Optimisers. Inst Aug 2015. Solic 200 Diverter, Toshiba RAS-10G2KVP-E Ultra High Efficiency Air Conditioner/Heat Pump, Kia Soul EV & 100% Green Octopus Agile Electric Tariff.
  • Martyn1981Martyn1981 Forumite
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    This looks interesting:

    10 yr warranty: good
    No reference to no. of cycles though: bad
    2.5 kW discharge rate (per module): good

    What does it actually cost to get installed? And does this cost vary with the inverter - it claims to be compatible with a few but not SE as yet.

    And how good is a warranty anyway? Will these manufacturers be around for the 10yrs and how easy will it be to claim from a company based in China?

    I assume you need to also buy a charge/discharge inverter if operating on the AC side.

    Good news is that they probably will be around for some time as BYD are massive, they are the guys building EV's in China, and buses in Europe/UK. I think BYD are bigger than Tesla and growing just as fast or faster, with their own Gigafactories.

    As the Tesla PWII is too big for me, I'm more and more convinced that a few years are needed, as I forsee a big battery battle, with a lot of fatalities in the coming years .... but ..... some very good winners. :think:
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
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