Maternity - Might be complicated

dadtobe

marliepanda wrote: »

You need to clarify what this understanding was of a permanent position. She has no contract. What proof does she have of this?

Why would hey replace a permanent teacher with a temporary/fixed term one? Literally hundreds of reasons. They could be rubbish?

The fact you are offering up reasons that it 'must' be a permanent job which frankly don't hold water suggests to me it probably isn't...

If your fixed term contract expires whilst you are on maternity leave that's allowed. Maternity is not a way to extend a contract... she's not being sacked. Her contract is ending.

If she is on a fixed term contract, and she appears to have no proof otherwise, then you are clutching at straws.

If you were an employee for 5 years left and you were offered a job back there why would you assume it was fixed term?

Bogalot

dadtobe wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, she accepted the role on the basis it was perm back in July. She told the school she was pregnant they told her it was fixed term.

She wanted the contract in writing before querying.

If the role was not offered as permanent I can't see how she could accept it as such.

dadtobe wrote: »

If you were an employee for 5 years left and you were offered a job back there why would you assume it was fixed term?

I wouldn't assume anything.

There has been poor communication all round, the school has not provided the contractual terms in writing (though they have confirmed the contract term verbally), and your fiance has made incorrect assumptions. As above, she needs to ask the employer to confirm the contract duration in writing.

marliepanda

dadtobe wrote: »

If you were an employee for 5 years left and you were offered a job back there why would you assume it was fixed term?

That's not how it works.

You cannot just assume permanent for literally no reason. Why did she leave and go on supply for two years? That implies a level of 'let's try something else' without that I would perhaps assume permanent. Certainly not after not being employed by them for two years.

dadtobe

marliepanda wrote: »

That's not how it works.

You cannot just assume permanent for literally no reason. Why did she leave and go on supply for two years? That implies a level of 'let's try something else' without that I would perhaps assume permanent. Certainly not after not being employed by them for two years.

That's right she wasn't looking for a role they approached her informally and offered her it (on a night out I might add) Supply because she didn't need to work full time as I earn a decent wage.

Still if it were a tribunal wouldn't they look at Advert, Job Offer, Contract etc ultimately its a he said / she said situation isn't it in terms of is it fixed or not?

Her reasons for thinking its perm are:

1. The teacher who was was there permanently
2. They only have 1 class per year group
3. They approached her for the role knowing she wanted a permanent role
4. It was a friend who offered her it
5. There aren't any other teachers there on fixed terms unless its a mat cover.

marliepanda

1. Doesn't matter, the teacher befores contract has zero bearing on your fianc!e.
2. Doesn't mater, as explained before, it means literally nothing.
3. Doesn't matter, that's hearsay.
4. Doesn't matter, why on earth would it being offered by a friend make it permanent?
5. Doesn't matter, other people's contracts have no bearing on hers.


None of these would stand up in a tribunal. Again, the fact you are using these very odd reasons makes it seem like you haven't a leg to stand on.

They may look at an advert. You don't have one
They would definitely look at a job offer. You don't have one.
They would definitely look at a contract. You don't have one.

You want to go to a tribunal and say 'my mate offered me it, and everyone else has one so why don't I?'

dadtobe

marliepanda wrote: »

1. Doesn't matter, the teacher befores contract has zero bearing on your fianc!e.
2. Doesn't mater, as explained before, it means literally nothing.
3. Doesn't matter, that's hearsay.
4. Doesn't matter, why on earth would it being offered by a friend make it permanent?
5. Doesn't matter, other people's contracts have no bearing on hers.


None of these would stand up in a tribunal. Again, the fact you are using these very odd reasons makes it seem like you haven't a leg to stand on.

They may look at an advert. You don't have one
They would definitely look at a job offer. You don't have one.
They would definitely look at a contract. You don't have one.

You want to go to a tribunal and say 'my mate offered me it, and everyone else has one so why don't I?'

The day she told them she was pregnant was the day they told her it was fixed term. The burden of proof shifts to the employer to show it was a fixed term all along. What evidence do they have?

Why on the same day she told them she was pregnant did they say it was fixed term?

marliepanda

dadtobe wrote: »

The day she told them she was pregnant was the day they told her it was fixed term. The burden of proof shifts to the employer to show it was a fixed term all along. What evidence do they have?

Why on the same day she told them she was pregnant did they say it was fixed term?

You have no proof it ever wasn't!

I'm not sure why it would matter to them anyway as they won't be in a position to be required to pay maternity.

questionss

In a school, especially a primary school, a female staff dominated environment, there are always people getting pregnant, I would be incredibly surprised if her pregnancy had any influence on the type of contract. School's are well used to sorting maternity leave, accommodating returning parents etc.
Lots of teachers have FTC especially for the first year or 2 at a school.

dadtobe

marliepanda wrote: »

You have no proof it ever wasn't!

I'm not sure why it would matter to them anyway as they won't be in a position to be required to pay maternity.

What you're saying is very different to the TUC and my HRBP at my work

She will, you obviously don't understand the burgundy book arrangements. I thought you said you worked in a school? Were you a teacher?

dadtobe

questionss wrote: »

In a school, especially a primary school, a female staff dominated environment, there are always people getting pregnant, I would be incredibly surprised if her pregnancy had any influence on the type of contract. School's are well used to sorting maternity leave, accommodating returning parents etc.
Lots of teachers have FTC especially for the first year or 2 at a school.

Thanks, I agree perhaps I'm being overprotective then again they didnt even know they had to do a risk assessment.

I'm still really confused because the Burgundy Book refers to this:

As noted earlier, the non-renewal of a fixed term contract or ending of a temporary
contract is regarded in law as a dismissal. From 1 October 2004 failure to comply with
the statutory (three-step) dismissal procedure will seem that any such dismissal is
automatically unfair and Employment Tribunal, may increase any compensation by up to
50% because of this procedural failure.

Would they be dismissing a pregnant employee?