Premier Park appeal from keeper but first reminder to driver

eeq

I'm hoping someone can help with a PCN from Premier Park Ltd (PPL). The situation is this (I hope the timeline is clear with the dates slightly concealed):

• Driver parked car in an ANPR controlled car park, but in a hurry wrangling children put in the reg number for the car they usually drive, not the one driven.
• PCN arrived to keeper, issued 9 days later
• Keeper appealed to PPL (issue date + 4 days) explaining situation; PPL refused to consider appeal without identifying driver. Naively did so (yes, I know now!).
• Appeal rejected, and POPLA code issued to keeper (issue date + 10 days).
• POPLA appeal launched on a number of grounds, and is in process.

The driver has just received a 'first reminder' for the PCN, dated 35 days after the POPLA code issued.

I am really puzzled as to where to go next. There is an appeal from the keeper in with POPLA, and there has never been a Notice to Driver issued - despite them being identified.

Where do I go from here?

Carthesis

Well having identified the driver is a bit of a pain...

However PPL have been VERY VERY NAUGHTY in refusing to consider the appeal without naming the driver. That is very much not allowed.

Start writing complaint letters to your MP, to Marcus Jones MP, to the PM, to the ICO, to the DVLA, and especially to the trade association to which PPL belong.

Coupon-mad

Is the keeper POPLA appellant the same person as the admitted driver?

eeq

Carthesis: Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Coupon-mad: POPLA appellant is not the same as the driver. However the keeper appealed to PPL, and the keeper was issued the POPLA code.

I'm not sure of the best action, but it looks like PPL are trying to charge both keeper and driver for the same alleged breech. I'm contemplating a polite email pointing out that they really aren't doing things properly, and that they've taken too long over notifying the driver (35 days and counting), so the driver can't be liable, but they've also stopped chasing the keeper by issuing the reminder. Oh, and that complaints to BPA, the shopping centre manager, and my MP are likely to be problematic for them.

Is that a reasonable next step here?

Coupon-mad

POPLA appellant is not the same as the driver. However the keeper appealed to PPL, and the keeper was issued the POPLA code.

That's what I wanted to hear. Did you/the keeper give the name and address of that driver?

eeq

Yes, as they wouldn't accept the appeal without that information. The 'reminder' was sent to the driver, at the driver's address as confirmation of that.

Coupon-mad

What, then they forgot they had the driver's details, reverted back to the keeper because the keeper appealed? I assume the keeper has said to POPLA, as part of the appeal: 'I am not liable under the POFA and in any case the driver has been named' (name and address).

Popcorn time! This will be interesting. I would not tip PP off but be ready to look carefully at any evidence they send to you and POPLA. You only get 6 days to comment on evidence. I tend to check the POPLA portal every few days to make sure they haven't updated it saying POPLA has the operator's evidence. You are meant to get a copy too.

eeq

Unfortunately, Popla appeal was sent before the "reminder" arrived. There was no contact with the driver until 35 days after they were identified, all the keeper had no idea that the driver was being held liable. PPL should, presumably, have rejected the initial appeal in the basis that they were now chasing the driver. Certainly, the driver has been given no opportunity to appeal.

Incidentally, POPLA appeal based on: no standing; improper ntk (various, including assertion that keeper had entrusted into contract); no breach of terms and conditions; and no loss incurred.

PPL have given the driver 28 days to pay. Clearly not going to pay, but trying to work out timings with POPLA.

softwaremad

maybe worth the driver appealing at the same time stating that this company have to decide whether they want the registered keeper or the driver as they cannot pursue a perceived debt with both at the same time.

Then popla obviously - you on the other hand as the registered keeper should report the company to the aos for continuing to chase you despite the driver details being supplied, thats a least one point on the naughty list (need 12 for coal) or suspension

eeq

Does the keeper wait for POPLA to adjudicate, or does the driver write something like this:

"Dear PPL, this is the first I have heard of this charge. After investigation, it is clear you have waited longer than 28 days to contact me, and so are past the time limit to issue a valid PCN to me. Yours, The Driver"

Very happy to let this play out, but concerned not to let everything get out of control.

What I really want is for one of the claims to be cancelled, and use that to stop the other one, and then to complain to BPA about PPL's 'Approved Operator' status.

Coupon-mad

The keeper definitely silently waits for the POPLA process, which allows the keeper to see the 'evidence' produced by the parking firm & 6 days to comment on it (big deal!).

But in those six days the keeper needs to state that in fact the driver was named (name and address) so the POFA has not been followed, keeper liability can't exist where the driver's name & address was given in writing (say which day/how/by email or whatever). Don't try to attach new evidence, POPLA won't allow it. Just say your piece.