Grievance and other issues

This is a long story but please bear with me.
I was TUPE'd to my current organisation two years ago, having worked in my previous job for 10 years. During the structure change process I only had three meetings to discuss what would be happening, and despite being invited (and accepting the requests) neither HR or the union rep at the time turned up to any of these. I was advised to still attend the meeting due to the short consultation time by my then manager due to the short time we had to respond to the consultation process.
The move went ahead and involved a change of location (20 miles away), transport was provided daily to get there so I wasn't too concerned by that aspect. Then upon my arrival to the new team (I was the only member of my team in the previous organisation to keep my job so I was quite grateful), I was almost immediately made to feel unwelcome. The team were very cliquey, excluded me from stuff, in a few cases work related. I was provided with no job description or procedures despite numerous requests and then got informed that in order to use the free transport provided I would need to put in a flexible hours request to change my hours permanently as I had been able to use it for a 3 month period only whilst I adjusted to the move and to marry up my working hours to the times the bus left (the bus runs every hour on the hour), the request was refused as it would adversely affect the work-life balance of my colleagues as a result of this and the other comments I saw my GP and ended up taking 2 months off with stress at work. Whilst off, I appealed against the refusal for a change to my hours however this went no further as by the time the manager had looked into it (one month after the policy states it should have been reviewed) I had returned to work and purchased a car in order to get me there on time.
On my return to work things were okay for a short time before the exclusions and comments came again, twice I was taken into meetings to inform me that colleagues had raised concerns about my mental health (once due to a throw away comment about pressure and the other time believe it or not related to me stating I couldn't believe a song that had played on the radio was 25 years old, and when told I was only as old as I feel, I responded it's a good job I feel mentally young - in that meeting I was told the 'concerned colleague' had told them I'd said I had a mental age of 3 and was there anything I needed to tell them).
In the following months I was then given work to complete with unrealistic deadlines despite informing the manager of such concerns, still not in receipt of job descriptions and SOPs despite chasing my requests, had responsibilities taken from me and finally I was taken into a meeting with no notice to inform me I was being placed on capability procedures.
As you can imagine with 12 years of service with no issues (and having had monthly one-to-ones and an appraisal in April this year with no concerns raised) this came as a complete shock.
I carried on working there for another two weeks after the meeting before I finally broke down and ended up back at the GP who signed me off again and I have remained off since.
Whilst off work I have started a grievance as I feel the capability is linked to the bullying and harassment, I had a meeting on 31st October and even though I was told I would receive a response within 5 days as per policy, it took an email chasing it from me two weeks later.
On receipt of the letter I was unsurprised to find that lots of information had been excluded, and they had found I have been treated fairly and put on capability appropriately. The letter was supposed to give me the right to appeal options and does not but does state I can contact HR about being placed on the redeployment list as I'd stated I would find it hard to return until the process was sorted.
My union rep has been involved all the way through the process, and I have sought advice from the CAB to no avail - they told me they could help if I was dismissed but couldn't do much at the moment. However they did give me the details for ACAS. My union rep has told me to write a letter of appeal as he feels I have a strong case. At this point I have a diary of over 20 pages detailing everything from the comments, to appeals to evidence against the capability.
My issues are these, I am coming to the end of my entitlement to occupational sick pay, and as the bread winner of the household this will substantially affect finances and lead to more stress.
I've been told by my union rep that I could argue to extend this due to the cause of my ill health.
Is this something anyone has ever heard of?
Secondly, I have applied for a job in the same organisation but at a much lower grade, and on much lower pay. If I got the job could I still follow up the grievance and if necessary claim for constructive dismissal, or does this only apply if I leave the organisation completely?
Thirdly, can my current organisation prevent me from getting another job due to my ill health?

Again, apologies for the length but any advice would be great fully received.

Comments

  • ohreally
    ohreally Posts: 7,525
    Combo Breaker First Post
    Forumite
    Lost the will to read, sorry.
    Don’t be a can’t, be a can.
  • sangie595
    sangie595 Posts: 6,092 Forumite
    I think this boils down to:
    1) Can you get extended occupational sick pay? You can ask but don't hold your breath. The precedent that sets would be truly dreadful (for the employer) and I cannot see any sensible employer ever agreeing it.

    2) If you take another job voluntarily within the same organisation, can you claim either unfair or consecutive dismissal (assuming you resign)? Almost impossible, and given the odds of succeeding in such complaints is already low, I'd say no.

    3) Separately, can you continue the grievance? Yes. But you won't win. Why waste your energy?

    4) Can they stop you getting another job due to your ill health? Within their organisation - they don't have to allow you to apply for any other job for any reason; they can simply block the application. There is no right to apply for a job. Outside the organisation - they can truthfully release your sickness record; what another employer decides is upon to them.

    The questions you didn't ask -

    1) You have contacted CAB and potentially others for advice. If your union find out they will wash their hands of you. You can only have one advisor. If that is the union, you stick with the union and nobody else. If you wish to go elsewhere you must stop using the union.

    2) If your union think you have a case you are dicing with their entire support by going your own way. I am struggling to see a strong case, but they have a lot more detail than I have. There is perhaps more in that detail than I can see here. Why didn't you ask the union these questions? You pay your subs for their advice, and they know the situation and the employer better than we ever could.

    It isn't that I want to blow you off - but you need to talk to your union. Unless your are saying you don't have confidence in them. But you must not send mixed messages or they will, quite rightly, cut you free.
  • sangie595 wrote: »
    I think this boils down to:
    1) Can you get extended occupational sick pay? You can ask but don't hold your breath. The precedent that sets would be truly dreadful (for the employer) and I cannot see any sensible employer ever agreeing it.

    2) If you take another job voluntarily within the same organisation, can you claim either unfair or consecutive dismissal (assuming you resign)? Almost impossible, and given the odds of succeeding in such complaints is already low, I'd say no.

    3) Separately, can you continue the grievance? Yes. But you won't win. Why waste your energy?

    4) Can they stop you getting another job due to your ill health? Within their organisation - they don't have to allow you to apply for any other job for any reason; they can simply block the application. There is no right to apply for a job. Outside the organisation - they can truthfully release your sickness record; what another employer decides is upon to them.

    The questions you didn't ask -

    1) You have contacted CAB and potentially others for advice. If your union find out they will wash their hands of you. You can only have one advisor. If that is the union, you stick with the union and nobody else. If you wish to go elsewhere you must stop using the union.

    2) If your union think you have a case you are dicing with their entire support by going your own way. I am struggling to see a strong case, but they have a lot more detail than I have. There is perhaps more in that detail than I can see here. Why didn't you ask the union these questions? You pay your subs for their advice, and they know the situation and the employer better than we ever could.

    It isn't that I want to blow you off - but you need to talk to your union. Unless your are saying you don't have confidence in them. But you must not send mixed messages or they will, quite rightly, cut you free.

    Thank you for this, I should note that my union rep is fully aware I have had contact with CAB, he suggested it to me to discuss the financial side and is continuing to help with the case. he was surprised that they disregarded my grievance due to the evidence I have, but also said that most cases he has dealt with this has been the case until it goes independent.

    I've only written some basics, as I stated there are 20 A4 pages currently detailing everything, not including emails and other evidence I have about the situation and considering the reply above yours where the will to live was lost I can only thank you for at least reading and giving an honest perspective on the process.

    It's a difficult situation when you don't know how you got to this point let alone the processes that need to be carried out.

    I have every confidence in my union rep but I'm frustrated at how long things are taking to resolve,
  • sangie595
    sangie595 Posts: 6,092 Forumite
    Teeksydawn wrote: »
    Thank you for this, I should note that my union rep is fully aware I have had contact with CAB, he suggested it to me to discuss the financial side and is continuing to help with the case. he was surprised that they disregarded my grievance due to the evidence I have, but also said that most cases he has dealt with this has been the case until it goes independent.

    I've only written some basics, as I stated there are 20 A4 pages currently detailing everything, not including emails and other evidence I have about the situation and considering the reply above yours where the will to live was lost I can only thank you for at least reading and giving an honest perspective on the process.

    It's a difficult situation when you don't know how you got to this point let alone the processes that need to be carried out.

    I have every confidence in my union rep but I'm frustrated at how long things are taking to resolve,

    I'm sorry to tell you this, and I don't know how experienced your union rep is (the less experienced tend to tell you what you want to hear, or nothing - depending on which will go down better).... these things tend to take a very, very long time. Six months is not uncommon and isn't short either. If it were to go to a tribunal, possibly up to two years. Very rarely longer - but it can take longer. I know that isn't what you will want to hear, but realistically you need to know that you are digging in for the long haul, and unless your organisation is very large, the almost certain outcome is that you will be looking for another job. These sorts of things sometimes end happily (although rarely quickly) but I have to be honest - that isn't common. Once things are at the sort of level that you describe, there is no going back. And unfortunately, even IF you manage to put together a tribunal claim, and IF you win, the amount you get will never compensate for any of this or your loss.

    I'm not telling you this to put you off. I'm telling you that you need to be prepared. And realistic. It will put a lot of possible scenarios into perspective, especially if you don't deal with stress well now. You need to be resilient, and make sure that you can find other things to keep you sane (that isn't a knock about your mental health - it's experience speaking!).

    One thing I am concerned about is why your union rep would send you to CAB. That is highly irregular. Unions have their own resources for everything from legal advice to benefits help. He or she should be using the unions resources. Can you please explain what the purpose of this was?
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